Comments by Visitors

Anonymous on your post "Iranians and African Americans":

2007-03-06T23:46:00.000-08:00

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Iranians and African Americans":

This comment is for the person who wrote the article on Mr. Tehran and the agenda behind having him on satellite television.

I am an Iranian American of 25 years of age living in diasphora since a very young age and have had numerous encounters with a variety of peoples and more so, a numerous class of Iranians and have reached some interesting conclusions.

First of all, I would like to clarify that despite all of the assertions made by Iranian nationalists that Iranians are the direct descendents of the noble Aryan race that consisted of fair skinned, tall, blue eyed peoples, I beg to differ on this point upon being a visitor to Iran for six months in just the city of Tehran itself. Secondly, I would like to make it clear that there is no standard way for anyone to behave "Persian" versus "African American" or "American" or "Arab" or otherwise.

Aside from whatever agenda Hollywood has for us, and I will not get into that because I personally have nothing to do with Hollywood here, but prefer to address the individual Iranians who read this comment,when are we, Iranians, going to accept the fact that we are not a pure race of people and we are in fact a mixture of neighboring groups, sure we do have our Indo European ancestry which is evident among our fair skinned, light haired, and blue/green eyed peoples, but we also have a mixture of medium olive, brownish, and other skin tones and hair types. Quite evidently, we have people in our country who have African ancestry towards the south who are just as much a part of our well respected population as the fair skinned blue eyed people in our country. Iranian is no longer a race if one simply takes it as just a nationality. Most of Iran no longer consists of pure Persians and interestingly, the fair skinned, light eyed Kurds and Azaris are not considered Persians. Those who are considered Persian or Fars in Iran are mainly olive skinned to light skinned peoples with dark hair and brown eyes. So, why bring up the issue of race so much in explaining who Iranians are, especially in today's world. It is no better than doing what Holly wood is trying to do.

Secondly, as I said there is no uniform way to act Persian or like you are Iranian. Forgive me, sir, but Mr. Tehran speaks Farsi impressively well, aside from his African American mannerisms and I was quite impressed to see his range of vocabulary and his honesty, sincerity, and willingness to engage Iranians, young and old, into serious discussions in a diplomatic and respectful manner which is more than I can say for the older generation of Iranians who yell at each other when the question of who is pro-Shah and who is pro-the current government arises on other channels on satellite. Compared to many young Iranians, Mr. Tehran's Farsi is impressively good and for you to say that they simply taught him a few words in Farsi is seriously an underestimation of what it takes to learn a new language. Clearly, he knows more Farsi than some of your closest relatives who have grown up abroad. Furthermore, if you think that Iranians necessarily have a more appropriate and dignified manner of speaking and communicating, I am afraid to say that you are not acquianted with every segment of Iran's population. In Tehran, simply, you have the well-known "laats" who engage in foul language and chase girls on the streets and have very crude mannerisms and of course are known for luring girls into prostitution and drug abuse in Iran today. Clearly, we do not need African Americans, Arabs, or Americans to bring us down. We bring each other down more than anyone else does and sadly, we always blame it on people who have nothing to do with us. It is sad to see a nation of people who are always in denial of the sad fact that their womenfolk are not perfect creatures by nature and are the ones responsible for their own problems. What have African Americans, Arabs, or Americans to gain from "bringing us down?" and do they need us to bring themselves up???? Do you really think that they see themselves in the same light that you see them???? You are very ethnocentric sir and your racist rhetoric is the kind that shames me. Instead of bragging about how the original Iranians looked before they were attacked by Arabs and Mongols and such, we better come up with better reasons as to why we are a better group of people because right now, I see almost no respect on the part of Iranians for themselves or for each other. All I see is rivalry, jealousy, callousness, rudeness, and deceitfulness. VAghean liaghatemon bishtar az in nist agar enghadr pastim.

Also, you bring up the issue of how foreigners have an agenda for Iranians in the eyes of the public. Why don't Iranians get themselves involved in the media to erode the distortion.

With respect to African American men wanting to bring Iranian girls down to a debase level, all I have to say is look at Iranian girls in Iran who are on an even more debase level. Since satellite and internet made it into Iran, so much of Tehran's female population began impersonating the looks, appearances, and mannerisms of pop stars like Brittany Spears and singers like Jennifer Lopez. How fast did they forget that they are the descendents of a noble, dignified Aryan race and that they are supposed to be virtuous, drug free, and gentle. If they are being lured into drugs and criminal and other undignified behaviour abroad, then it is of their own choosing. Sadly, I wish that the new generation of Iranian ladies would collectively use their new freedoms to become better, more accomplished people, but they bastardize their freedoms in large numbers. Its quite disheartening. They have nothing to look up to either and all you see in Iranian TV are Iranian music videos like Shahram K and other pop singers who feature females, Iranian and non Iranian, dancing seductively and showing no signs of virtue.

Please people, have hearts, don't always be so quick to blame others for your mistakes. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING TO YOUR COMMUNITY AND TO YOUR NATION, IT IS OF YOUR OWN DOING. BLAMING OTHERS WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. FURHTERMORE, BELITTLING OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS WILL NOT ELEVATE YOUR STATUS.

Oslonor Comments:
I Just make a few points. Under Saffavids in 15 century many persians were murdered and replaced by Azeri Turrks. That is true both in Isfahan and Shiraz. So the city or language does not determine the ethnicity. Or in other words anybody who comes from Shiraz is not Persian. Secondly Persians are not restriced to one province. That is Pars or Fars province in South West. Persians live both in South West Iran and in Khorasan. Persians do not live in North West as Azeri Turks claim they have Persian ancestors. Secondly why Azeri Turks constantly associate themselves with Kurds when Kurds have nothing to do with Azeri Turks. Thirdly if you have any pictures of blond and blue eyes Azeri Turks, we like to see them. Fourthly Persians have never claimed they look like scandinavians as you claim here.

Tehrani Azeri Views on Azeris in Azerbaijan

2007-01-15T19:25:00.000-08:00

"Dr. Chehregani's campaign focused on issues of cultural discrimination. He expressed concern that Azeri language and culture was in danger of vanishing. He demanded recognition for Azeris as Iranians, not Persians, and called for the teaching of the Azeri language instead of Arabic as a second language in schools in Azeri areas[5], as guaranteed under Article 15 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran, which permits the use of regional languages in the media and in schools when used in addition to Persian."

But yes I do distinguish between ethnicity and nationality. This is what is denied by people from the rep. Azerbaijan so much. It is offensive for me to read time by time that Azeris and Fars are of two different nationalities. They are of two different ethnicities but are both Iranian.

As for you being Azeri. Well History proves otherwise with regard to Transcaucasia. I am not trying to rediscuss this issue. But me as an Iranian have known Iranian Azeris and I can not associate them in anyway with you. You and most of the panturkist/ Panislamist/ wahabists from the rep. azerbaijan are full of hatred and racism, and you cannot talk some simple facts with them about culture, history and litterature.

As per the "Aryanism" frequently touted on this forum, this is a non-issue in Iran, and as Babak has said, the "Persians" (whom many of this forum irrationally choose to despise) do not carry a high proportion of U5 gene clusters, unlike Iranian Azeris, northern Iranians, Kurds and Lurs. I myself have Ossetian roots in Azeri origins and my mother is Mazandarani - their genetic profile is very similar to Georgians.

There are a lot of misinformed people out there, including Iranians, and hopefully this can clear things up, about who is Aryan and who is not.

Europeans are not Aryans. The Germans are the not Aryans.

The only Aryans are the Iranian peoples, the Indo-Iranian peoples, and the Indo-Aryans.

Hitler's "Germans are Aryans" theory was based on the yet unproven link between Scythians and Saxons.

Hitler believed that the Saxons were the descendent's of the Scythian tribe that settled in Germany.

This is incorrect.

Oslonor: It is not clear what do you mean by "Iranian". Iranian is not an ethnicity. It is simply the citizens of Iran. Kurd, Azeri, Persian, Baloch, Lor etc are ethnicities. There is no Iranian ethnicity in Iran.

Are Azeris Aryans?

2006-12-26T12:05:00.000-08:00

Iranian Azeri:
Remember Turkic peoples are non-turks who speak or adopted Turkish language and are not ethnically Turks.

Anatolian Turk from Turkey:
You drive me crazy with such nonsens!!
Böyle piçleri hala ne konusturuyon burda seko??!!

Let me say something to you, you will never ever gonna be an ayran or aryan because "AZERI's ARENT ARYANS"

Iranians and Hooked Noses

2006-12-26T12:02:00.000-08:00

Azerist No.1:
the irano-afghan race does have humped or hooked noses just look at all the thousands of stonecarvings in persepolis (some of them not representing iranian though) but all the iranian ones have hooked noses I was in iran just recently I saw most persians had it, its actually a beutiful thing what it tells you, it tells you that you have not been mixed, besides I rather have a hooked nose than an upright piglooking nose like some "nords"(sorry to alll the nords no personal offense) the europeans with those noses most likely have iranian ancestors, since "white" europeans dont have the hooked nose rather its more upright Hooked noses are not only with iranians or with those who have a trace of iranian lineage. the europeans with those noses most likely have iranian ancestors, since "white" europeans dont have the hooked nose rather its more upright

Azerist No. 2:
Many Iranians, as well as many Europeans with distant Iranic roots have HUMPED noses. not to be coinfused with hooked noses Other Whites such as Amazigh may also have this trait. You will see many people in Campania ,in Italy the land of my ancestors who because of thois trait might look equally at home in the Zagros or High Atlas. You will see many others with the classicMed triangular Grecian nose, which many Nordics have too, though it tends to be slightly longer at times in Nords. But hooked noses occurr in both groups too Its important not to focus on one single racial trait, with the possible exception of hair texture which seems the most reliable indicator of race of all.

Azerist No.3:
An Irano-Afghan trait. That is, it is more common among Irano-Afghans than other Caucasoid subgroups. That doesn't mean that all or even a majority of Irano-Afghans have this kind of nose, it simply means it's more common in our subgroup than in the other subgroups. I personally haven't seen many Iranians with hooked noses, but I have seen more Iranians with them than I have seen Scandinavians.

Who are Aryans?

2006-12-14T05:35:00.000-08:00

Here is a very short description that I found on Wikipedia. It actually sums up the whole thing pretty well.

Since ancient times, Persians have used the term Aryan as a racial designation in an ethnic sense to describe their lineage and their language, and this tradition has continued into the present day amongst modern Persians (Iranians) (Encyclopedia Iranica, p. 681, Arya). In fact, the name Iran is a cognate of Aryan and means "Land of the Aryans."

Darius the Great, King of Persia (521–486 BC), in an inscription in Naqsh-e Rustam (near Shiraz in present-day Iran), proclaims: "I am Darius the great King… A Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage...". He also calls his language the "Aryan language," commonly known today as Old Persian. According to the Encyclopedia Iranica, "the same ethnic concept was held in the later centuries" and was associated with "nobility and lordship." (p. 681)

Light Skin "Iranians"

Oslonor you are full crap. You have such an ugly agenda and I wonder where the hell it comes from.
I'm getting sick and tired from you threads and posts that keep polluting our forum.
WTF is wrong with you man, seriously?

Don't you have nothing better to do than spending all your time posting this kind of sh!t? I wonder what you get out of all this? Googling for pictures of "lighter" Iranians and posting them in forums like this to serve your propoganda is pathetic. You have absolutely no proof that the pictures you are posting are of actual persians. They could be of any other ethnic group. The point is; You have no proof. You just keep talking out of your ass.

Yes there are some "lighter" Iranians that could very well be taken for germans or in some cases even nordic, BUT anyones who have actually been to Iran know that the vast majority of Iranians are not light compared to europeans. We have moslty olive toned skin colour.

Now some started a thread while back suggesting not to reply to you, which I thought was a good idea, and I would never ever waste my time on you, but since non-Iranians read this forum they could get a false image of Iranians just by reading you stupid posts...and you are not even Iranian, go figure!

Someone please ban this guy. He hasn't violated any rules, but maybe you should set up new ones just to get rid of him. Clearly he has no intentions to discuss. He only wants to spread propaganda. He is by far the most tragic poster ever, I must say, either that or he is getting paid to do this. I for one can't find any other logic.

Oslonor Comments

The text from Wikepedia is about ancient Persia history. It has nothing to do with the meaning of Aryan in anthropology today.

Cyrus the Great was not an anthropologist. All he was saying that his people are noble people. That is what he means by Aryan.

Aryan in anthropology today means that there is a common origin between Persians, Pashtoons and Nordics. This has been proved correct in physical anthropology.

Also Azeri Turks should stop fooling themselves that because Iran means land of Aryans, then they are related to Persians. They are related to Turks.

May Ask you what you mean Germans are not Aryans? What does aryan mean? What did Cyrus the Great mean when he said Aryans? I do not think you understand what you are talking about. Only "Iranians are Aryans". What does that supposed to mean?!!!! What is Aryan??????

What do you mean by light skin "Iranians"??? Is "Iranian" some kind of race and I show only the light skin ones!!!!! There are no "Iranians" as a race. Iranian means the citizens of Iran and has nothing to do with any race!!!! Iran is a multi ethnic country.

You say there is no proof how Persians look like. You are supposed to be from Iran and you do not know how Persians look like? How confused are people in Tehran? The only reason that people can be so confused is the regime's propoganda that tries to confuse people about different ethnicities in Iran.

Ossetians are basically turks and georgians who have adopted an Eastern Iranian language. I have a blog on this. Croats are related to Albanians, and Turks. Many of them look like Azeri Turks. About 20% are slavs. I have a discussion thread on this too. Alans and Aryans are separated by 2000 years. I am talking about Aryan migration that relates Persians to Germans and not about Alans. The natives of Iran are not mixed with Turks or Arabs. Arabs have gene marker EU10. The natives of Iran do not have this gene marker. Anybody who has black hair in Iran is not mixed with Turks if you think so. Azeri Turks live in Western Iran. They are not even mixed with Kurds who are their neighbors.

Rafel from Sweden

2006-11-23T22:00:00.000-08:00

Could someone please explain what defines a "persian"?

I live in Sweden and there are many iranian immigrants here. I am aware of the fact that Iran is a multi-ethnical country and that only around 50% of all iranians are classified as "persians".

Anyway, 9 out of 10 iranians in Sweden have clearly arabid/armenid, almost jewish features (they look in general more like stereotype jews than what most modern israelis do) and very dark skin or greyish/pale yellow skin with extreme body hair. They also have a stronger and more musky body smell than for example northern african arabs.

1 out of 10 iranians in Sweden look more like whiter mediterranean people, such as greeks. They seem to be of mixed race but I don't know where the obvious european features come from.

If you look at history, it was obvious that Alexander the Great considered persians as the racial and cultural opposite of the macedonian greek culture. He even called for arranged mass marriages between persian women and greek men in an attempt to create a unified western, greek race from west to east in his vast empire.

If you ask me, persian culture, from what I've seen is not very "indo-european" or "western" either, except from the language. This is very clear if you look at history as well. The way the greeks waged war and built their civilization differs from the persians, quite a lot, and was one reason the persians never managed to concquer Europe.

So, what IS a persian? Is it a white "aryan" person from long before the dawn of civilization or is it an oriental people with an indo-european language?

I don't see the relation between persians and westerners at all.

2006-11-23T03:47:00.000-08:00

The Ideology of an Azeri Turk "Aryan"

I have copied this from another forum where an Azeri Turk discusses his ideology:

Posted by Azeri Turk:
Here i have alot of questions and you must answer to all of them

please answer carefully:

1 - What is ethnic cleanse?
2 - How can i cleanse my blood?
1 - Why i must cleanse my blood?
2 - Is brown eyes and hairs a non-white influence that mixed with my blood?
3 - It is true that pure Aryan must have blue eyes and blond hairs?
If yes then, what i must to do for having taller grandchildren with blue eyes
and blond hairs?
please read and answer carefully. these questions is very important for me. they annoyanced my mind for about 10 years

my father was 170cc and my mother is 157cc. but i'm 184 and my bro is 190 (he is 3 years younger than me! but he is taller than me. i think because he is goal keeper) this shows we have genetical potential to having BIG Aryan sons.

my momma said that she is short cause malnutrition in adolescence.
but hopefully malnutrition can't change genes. and we are taller than those ****ing semi caucasians in Iran who call themselves Persian

1- who said i have semite mixture? i just asked that dark eyes and hairs is a non-white talent and you said NO!!! so i haven't semite talent.

who said i want marry with that German girl? i only asked a question about her. i haven,t a chat with her yet. if she become online i would ask her net2net (looooool-about Christ's Sake). i haven't good financial situation for immigration to germany or overhand. so i must marry an Iranian case.

i founded a good Iranian Nordic case with dark blonde hair and aqua eyes. but she is a fool. she is from a rich family. she would never marry with me until i found a good job with a high income.

But if you want children like that, marry a blonde woman, and pray to... a higher force, your children will be like her.

ok. i will go to Iranic plains for hunting a Nordic Nomad girl with that characteristic (I'm sure her bros will beat me for greeting )
because all Nordic types in Tehran occupied by rich mullah's sons

2006-11-23T03:42:00.000-08:00

Hello dear Osloner!

I have managed to read your article about Aryans. It is quite interesting. I am doing research myself. Although there is much I can tell u about and discuss over time. I am trying to find out what percentage of each ethnic category I carry in my blood. Although I am from Iran,My mother's side of family have red/blonde hair and my dad's side are from north east of Iran close to Afghanistan and look more Parthian. What is a good way to know from my facial features how much Aryan I might be? Also I was curious about your conception of fake Persian. You have placed some photos online One of the photos is the mosaic of issues. Although by all accounts, the experts believe that the mosaic is a faithful copy of a 3rd century BC painting. The faces probably are authentic I have seen many phenotypes in Iran matching the faces in the mosaic. Probably the original Persians had already mixed with the local population of Iran after migration. some of the soldiers have Caucasian features, so probably one of their ancestors was Aryan or so. Or well maybe that the original Persians did look like the ones in the painting and never truly had light hair. One of my professors from Norway mentioned to me that blond hair originated from north of Europe. All these ideas are confusing. Also I am concerned many of people who we might think are Aryans might be descendents of british or Russian soldiers during occupation of Iran. The reconstruction of Xerxes face shows he looks just like Iranians today. Although there is strong conflicting report among Iranians that original Achamanid dynasty did have Nordic features. Please let me know your opinion about these thoughts so I can improve upon this. By the way I live in Los Angeles too.

Oslonor:
Great coincidence that all historical figures look like Azeri Turks of today. I am not sure who is producing these "historical documents"????!!!! Of course Azeri Turks are called "Iranians".

James from London England UK

2006-11-23T03:34:00.000-08:00

Dear Oslonor,

I am writing to say thank you for your amazing website about persians and hollywood, I have found it very fasinating indeed, You have opened my eyes completely about the many races in Iran and that Persians are a unique race, although I have read much on your website I still have have many questions, I am still a bit confused about some races eg I still am unsure between the difference of Aryans and anglo-Saxon I had thought they were of the same race, please could you clarify with me, I know you have written so much on your website but please forgive my stupidity I am still a bit confused. I by the way have fair hair (was blonde when younger but now dark blonde) and blue eyes.and my decendants on my Fathers side come from Scotland, my mother has Olive Skin but has no hooked nose, in fact she looks a lot like persian the way you have described!, Please, I hope you can clarify the Aryan/Saxon question.

Thank you very much for your time and may God Bless you for your work.

James from London England UK

Oslonor:
Aryans are mostly Scandinavians and Nordic Germans in addition to Persians and Afghans. These people are not mixed with the natives and have remained the same since Aryan migration. Anglo-Saxons are mixed with natives.

Posted by Anonymous to Persians and Hollywood at 2:07 AM

2006-11-23T03:15:00.000-08:00

Oslonor, your racist anti-Azeri shenanagan has gotten too far. "Persians are native, and Azeris came from nowhere" "Persians are naturally pretty, and Azeris are the ugly ones" "Persians strive for Westernization, and backward-ass Azeris won't let them"... Don't you think you went a little too extreme? You know, the fact that you have a Persian wife doesn't excuse you for badmouthing other ethnicities. First of all, it's not "Azeri Turks" but simply Azeris. They call them "Tork" in Iran merely to distinguish them from other Iranians pointing out their non-Iranic language. Secondly, Azeris didn't "arrive" to Iran in the 15th century. Those who arrived were the Seljuks, and they came in the 11th century, established a state, imposed their language and later dissolved in the local population creating Azeris. Whether you like it or not, it has been proven that Azeris carry genetic elements mostly from indigenous peoples of the region. And don't try to push your "Azeris are a bunch of Turks who have played no role in the history of Iran" next time you're in Iran - they'll rip you apart... Persians that is. As for the support of the regime, learn some history: an Azeri by the name of Sattarkhan fought to turn Iran into a constitutional monarchy in 1905. And another one by the name of Roshdiyeh first came up with the idea of European-style curriculum for Iranian schools in the 40s... I could go on, but I'm afraid to give your racist ass a heart attack.
Posted by Anonymous to Persians and Hollywood at 2:07 AM

Oslonor Comments:
We state that Azeri Turks did not play any role in the Persian Empire. That is 500 BC. Azeri Turks migrated to Iran since 11 century but the main movements were in 15 century AD. We consider Azeri Turks as bakward tribal elements and we support the independence of Azerbaijan. We think it is best Azeri Turks separate from the natives of Iran. The process of formation of Azeri Turk nation is a historical process and we think it is very positive. Only some dishonest Azeri Turks in Tehran oppose this because they are benefiting the robbery of oil resources from the natives of Iran. Already today slogans have appeared on the walls stating "Death to Turks" in Iran. So we think it is urgent that this should be done in peaceful way.

The Question of Ayrans

2006-11-04T22:58:00.000-08:00

Azeri Views

The truth is, is that Pure Race Aryans can be found in modern day Iran.

Infact, 51% of of Iranians and pure raced Persians.

The mixed ones, that barely have any Aryan genes left in their body live around the borders.

But the ones in the center, conservatively kept, are the true Persians for example in Tehran, %90 are true Persians.

No, most do not have blonde hair, blue eyes, but that's not necessarily Aryan, as they still have white, or olive coloured skin, and are not brown.

The Brown Iranians you see are NOT Persian, and are probobly immigrants from other countries, or have other decents.

IF you see a Persian than is darker than another, it just means that the country's climate has effected his bloodline more than another's.

No Persians. All are Iranians.

2006-11-04T22:54:00.000-08:00

Kurd, persian, parthian... It dosent exist. We have mongol blood, turk blood etc. Kurds are iranian, persians are farsis and live in a tiny bit of Iran, kurds lived in northen iran, but some way time and history have changed things, now 80% of al persians are diffrent non persian tribes speaking farsi and have persian cultures. Kurds live in my familys bloodline city bojnourd, whole northen khorsassan, north eastern iran is full of kurds. between kurdestan and that part is also kurds speaking persian and today is persian. Persians in kurdestan is now kurds. Its all an illusion, we are moslems but its not our native religion, its all of history. Forget about being kurd or persian, the time of ethnicitys belongs to the past and ignorant. Be proud but dont create a kurdestan from Iran. The next king of Iran can be kurd, the president and goverment can be all kurd but there will be no kurdish state fom Iranian land. Just drop it, be realistic its not the medieval times anymore.

Not persian or kurdish, Iranian, and yes kurds do come from northen Iran. The worlds ethnicities isnt language an culture. Arabs live in the "arabian". Iraqis and egyptians are not at all arabs but speak arabic and therfore are arabs. Kurds and persian speak diffrent languages but it dosent mean anything!

This is a bad map dosent show khorassan, but still the kurds are green, the kurds in Turkmenistan was there before the kurds in iran or Turkey. They immigrated west. to todays kurdestan. I never said all iranians have the same bloodline, but they are the same. Kurds eat persian food, persians eat kurdish food. evereyone in the world thinks they where first and best. The "persian empire" was of 4 languages and capitols. All to unite. But there where so much more but only 4 was enough. Parsi are folk from Pars province, there are thousands of tribes that are called persians today like Yazdi and Espehani. They are not persians but still they are.

Yes Azeris are Aryan! They speak a Turkic language, but they are Iranians historically. Persian speak Farsi which is full of ARabic, IMO up to 50% Arabic. Yet are we 50% Arabs??? No.

It doesn't matter if Kurdish Language is different, and Kurdish dance is different. India is has far more language diversity than Iran, more ethnic/cultural/tradition differences. Yet all consider themselves Indian.

Where is Persian culture?

2006-11-04T22:49:00.000-08:00

Azeri Turks can speak Persian language . That is all you know about Persian culture. You speak the Persian language. Otherwise the Persian culture is unkonwn to you. I wonder where did you learn the Persian culture or the "Iranian" culture? In Azerbaijan or in Tehran? No you can not learn the Persian culture there. Those regions have Azeri Turk culture.

No Persians in Iran

2006-11-04T22:47:00.001-08:00

yes, the word Persian is used by Iranians only to descibe themselves to foreigners, within Iran theres no such thing as a "Persian" ethnicity, noone calls themselves "Farsi" or "Parsi" but rather Irani, which is the standard term for the main people there. Azeris and Kurds and others are the ethnic minorities, which even within them they cannot be deamed a minority because they are identical and fully assimilated with Iran as a whole. So I dont know whose giving you ur facts but the different ethnicities in Iran arent some sort of Iraq-like different sects, or that Azeris only live in their province and Baluchis only live in theirs or so and so forth like u make it out to be, but its rather a melting pot where everyone lives with eachother and you can go ur whole life in any street in Iran without being asked of ur ethnicity or background.

buddy, i've been to every city and town from bushehr to ardebil and from abadan to mashhad, and ethnic groups almost dont exist. u have the so called "persians" which are basically the Iranians and the so called other minorities which are just as Iranian. during the war in fact it was the kurds taht were going out and dying in the highest numbers. and taht map, yes ive seen it before and ive discussed it before, its very distorted and false, mazandarani is not even an ethnicity, its just a province. and who said 70% of Tehran is azeri? perhaps it never dawned on me taht there were so many Azeris if this is true because they and everyone else is soo assimilated, so if the Azeris are taht much woven into the fabric of society, and practically nothing but a slight turkish accent can distinguish them, then why are they even a minority? they're the same people that happen to also speak another language, just as theres people taht speak Arabic in ahvaz and abadan. so no, those people arent ethnic minorities, when i go to Iran what i consider a minority is the large number of Russians i see in Tehran, or the large number of black Africans that the Portuguese broiught over decades ago in the South. other than that, not so much anyone else.

Posted by an Azeri

2006-11-04T22:45:00.000-08:00

"i dont kno what ur motive is behind all of this but Azeris are Iranian people that had a change of language, this is common knowledge in Iran and accepted by all Azeris. They are Iranian peoples, of indo-european or aryan origins and not some tribal turkic people or whatever ur making them out to be"

Swedish Views on Azeri Turk "Aryans"

2006-11-04T16:45:00.000-08:00

No matter how indo-european their language are, their culture and their genetics are not. They can call themselves "aryans" or whatever, but to be honest I have never ever met a more greedy and destructive people.

They are narcissistic and have a damaged self image. They tend to be drawn to vulgarity and excess, as well as being extremely self righteous.

It disturbs me a lot that some white northern europeans look favorably at iranians just because some pro-nazi statements made by the current iranian president. The people who do this probably never met many real life iranians.

I live in a predominantly nordoid country myself that has a large iranian immigration and the idea that iranians and nordics should be close relatives is prepostrous. No one in this country, not even the anti-racist left wingers, would ever see a relationship between iranids and nordics. They are as far apart as you can get on the europid racial tree.
The jews in Stockholm look a lot more nordic than any iranian I ever saw.

Those links you posted didn't work, but I assume it was pictures of iranians with caucasian influences, they are not related to germans, they never where and those "historical sources" that say otherwise was proven wrong long ago.
German 19th century archeologists in India, during the time of german national renessaince in the divided Germany of that time, made up a totally bull**** story about the "aryans".

If you read the Nazi racial biological despricptions of jews and take a look at the subhumans named x or y selling kebab on the streets of my home city, they are a perfect match physically for the nazi description of jews.

I would rather live in a favela in Rio, full of negros, than having to accept one single iranian as "neighbour" of mine or give any credit to their dirty culture.

Azeri Turk from "Bojnord Khorasan"

2006-11-04T16:41:00.000-08:00

Posted by Azeri Turk: Bojnord
HAHA Oslo-whore! HAHA! There is a pan-turanist that i added to my msn. He claims im a turk cause i come from Bojnourd, im a "Bojnourdi-turk."

I can tell you that no where in Iran can you find purer aryans, The girls have 0 body hair, no one have the eye brow that stick together, half the poppulation are blond. I have never ever heard anyone speak turkish there, and im there 2 months a year.

Oslonor:
Azeri Turks claim to be all other ethnicities except Azeri Turks. This guy claims he is from Bojnord, in Khorasan. I do not think he has ever been Bojnord. There are Non-Azeri Khorasani turks live in Bojnord.

2006-11-03T20:23:00.000-08:00

Posted to Persians and Hollywood at 8/18/2006 12:33:44 PM

Hi Dude!! Good job, I really appreciate the things you are doing for us (Persians). Whoever sees me (a Persian + Kurd mixed) thinks I'm European. I have no Turkic blood. Iranians are mixed genetically - of course. However you can clearly see Germanic (Nordic) traits in them. Some are Slavic too.

I have LIVED in 23 countries so far... I can distinguish faces... In Kerman, Iran I saw some of the Germanic faces I told you.

I have some pictures for you if you want...

By the way there are so many redheads too..

Anyway, KHASTE NABASHI!!!

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Posted to Persians and Hollywood at 8/18/2006 12:33:44 PM

2006-11-03T20:21:00.000-08:00

Who are Azeris? Posted by Iranian on August 16, 2006, 8:11 pm, in reply to "Re: tell us what is wrong? - Oslonor"
209.74.96.60

Azeri is a new name that Russians gave this nation they stole from us they are Arranis and yes they are Iranian from the Iranian tribes and they have nothing to do with Turks even though the language was forced on all of us just like Arabic majority of Iranians never changed. Kurds are Iranian speak an Indo-Iranian language.

Every region has a different look and looks has nothing to do with it, being Caucasian or Aryan has to do with bone structure, look at India big mixture with Dravidians that lived in India before Iranians but they all have the same bone structure and every where you read you will see they are Caucasian even though they mostly look 50 shades darker than Iranians.
What language Azeri speaks Turkish? Hell even the courts to this day and Turkish courts spoke Farsi, Azeri have no language other than Farsi and Turkish. You are very confused about Azeri language no Turks lived in this region until after the Arab conquest.

First of all no such thing as Azeri Turk. Now why would we have Azeri Turk in Afghanistan you are way off? Afghanistan and its people are of the original Ironic people that settled this area, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, Tajikistan all that you see that ends with “Istan” was part of Iran and its people they are all Caucasian or Aryan people.

Turks are a form of Mongol however because they lived north of the Mongol tribes for hundreds of years and battling the people lived in Russia they had tremendous mixing between them, that is why it was much easier for Arabs to accept the Turks as slaves rather than Mongols which everyone hated they were able to mix easier with the population but they still have some Mongol attributes and bone structure depending on the person and how much the family’s intermixed.
Kazaks are perfect example of the Turks that moved completely into Russia and lived amongst the Russians but still you could see the difference of the Mongol look, but again not enough of them and as a minority moving into territories taking wives changed their disgusting Mongoloid look. Mongols and Turks are of the same race but Mongols and Manchurians and Chinese had more intermixing, and Turks mixed more with Russians.

You really need to do some soul searching, Azeri have nothing to do with Turks, never did never will. They are of Caucasian back ground they are part of Iranian people always were and have been. How do you come up with this information that Azeri are Turks no Turks lived in this area from Cyrus the great until the Arab invasion.
Turkey and its people are not Turks minority of the people lived in Turkey are Turks and you see little or no Turks left in this nation, the population are Macedonians, Romans, Greeks and Persians and this is for thousands of years before Tartar sag arrival.

It is all about history, if history does not apply then what does.

You are a Turk that is all and just like alpo you will not accept the truth and Iran and all its people in the region are Iranian and you dont like it and trust me we will get the Azeri people to see whom they are and change this disgusting Turkish language with its true Farsi language, dont hate the player hate the game.

You are lost, find your way back.

Posted by Iranian on August 16, 2006, 8:11 pm, in reply to "Re: tell us what is wrong? - Oslonor"
209.74.96.60

2006-11-03T20:18:00.000-08:00

Posted by jorgen to Persians and Hollywood Part II at 8/12/2006 03:11:40 PM

I hate to burst your racist/german wannabe bubble you Iranian/indo-aryan/slavic-asian. t
This is the truth you need to learn.
Germanic is the correct term over Nordic but both mean the same thing. Germanic or Nordic peoples are proto-scandanavian. Gots, Gotas, Saxons, Sueiones, all are the same people. They are all German and therefore proto-Scandinavian and not the other way around! All theses people are much more closely related to each other than any of them would be related to an Aryan Iranian. An ancient group of people who lived in Asia north of Afganistan and Pakistan divided into migritory groups in Paleolithic times. one group went north to the baltics and over into what is now Scandinavia and became the Germanic or proto-Scandinavians. One group went north and east to Manchuria and Siberia and eventually to North America. The other group went to Aryan India and to Aryan Persia. Yes an Aryan Persian is more related to a Norwigian than a Libyan but an Aryan Persian is definately not more closely related to a Norweigian than an Angle or a Saxon. All people of this world are beautiful and equal creations of God! Get off the racist obbsession with Nordics and stop denouncing your Jewish neigbors! I hope the Jews kick Hezbolah out of Palistine! If You Aryan Persian/ wannabe Nordics want war with the US than bring it on!!! By the way that photograph of the so called nordic tribal girl is a picture of a semetic girl or a slavic appearing girl. Most Russians are slavic and so if she looks like a Russian it is because she looks slavic. She is a beautiful girl and hopefully she won't be grow up to be an ignorant racist like you. Hopefully she will grow up to be a strong women who will liberate Iran from all the ignorant bastards who run that country!

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Posted by jorgen to Persians and Hollywood Part II at 8/12/2006 03:11:40 PM

Afghan: Azeris are Turks

2006-10-12T01:19:00.000-07:00

Bro, Azaris are turks origine. It is proven more then one time.Why do you call youself Iranian. Aserbaidjan (thousand(Asar--persian word)Jan(turk-altheic)) You can here the word Jan today in turkey as well like in china Chan/Mongolia wich is related with Khan. Cyros was an origine ''Tadjik'' today we would say Afghan-Tadjik he knew the word Ariana/Ayana--Aryani because he came from the region of Bakhtra (and Sogd). That the real persian are Afghans that is facts and 100% true, that Parthians are releted with Pakhtoones is true as well (go and ask a priest--Pathan-->you can find this word even in the Zend-Awestan).They look more like the ancient ‘’persian’’ than any other iranian tribe today. Tadjiks, Pakhtoones are more related with eachother and even with Pakistanis than Tadjiks are related with iranian people from Iran or Kurds. Since 1930 Iran didn t know the word Aryan which was taken from Aryana a ancient name of the modern region of Afghanistan,Balutchistan and south Tadjikistan (Bakhtra or shall i say PAKHTra-->ancient and classic name of the today province of Balkh).Pakhtoones tries since 1890 take their origine from this word but scientist reject it because they associate it with Bakhta and not with PAKHTra or BAKHTo but this is wrong. They have use the old right name of Balkh (Pakhtra). They need just to see back to time of Darius and Arthatax.The word Aryan which was called was first by russian scientists in the 19. century when they studied the history of the old world came from this region even during the Timurids they called it Aryana.The history of independent (and a own history)''Iran'' or ''Persia'' began with the foundation of Khorassan-e Kabri which was the first name of Afghanistan.Iranian people from Iran are thieves who stole more than one times our trully persian culture, history and identity. If we Tadjiks will rule Afghanistan than we will take us what is ours from Iran (the whole east partà Khorassan) but before we have to fight those Hindus in Pakistan (Khakistan). Please follow my words my lovely brother and don t let you confuse by iranians. They want Aserbaidjan. I mean they even want the parts of Afghanistan where true persians live. Your people belong to the great turk people to Ottomans and Ghurids. Why do you have words in you language which is older then the persian words and are related with the turk language?The Azari phenotypes proved this as well other methodes.Did you ask yourself this one time? If you would search after your identity you will find your root and the root of your language in the altheic-language. The same with Ossets. Ossetians are turks who have adopted an eastern Iranian language. Stalin was an gerogian osstian therefore it is weont as well to say that they are related with the scythians otherwise why we don t know to much about them and from where they came exactly? The first time when they emerged in the history was in the 17. century till this time they were unknown. You as an Azarai should be proud because your people are ‘’ruler’’ Irans (Chomeini, Human,Kamran, Gogos ect.). The most Mullahs are Azaris. The turks were the onbe who proclaim the shiism and from those days til today they have in real the power of the country and there is nothing with iranizilation or assimilation. There are million of Azaris who need and call after an independent state. You should fight for it. It is your chance to base an pwn great history, an own identity and an own great culture!!!

Here is an article which proved that ossetians are turks!!

http://scythianss.blogspot.com/

please scroll down till you see tables and figures. Klick in some of them and this DNS-Test will show that Azaris are turks and not iranians.----> http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=419996

Sprachnamen (name of the language) none
Sprachgebiet (language area) Ossetien (Kaukasus) (ossetian)
Affiliation (affiliation) Nordostiranisch (north-east iranian)
Dialekte (dialect) Osten: Iron; Westen: Digorisch; Süden: Tualisch
Sprachgemeinschaft (language community) Osseten
Perioden (periods) none
Früheste Zeugnisse (earliest time witnesses) 17. Jh.
Literatur (literature) none which is important
Status (statues) Nationalsprache der Ossetischen Republik (national language of ossetian republic)
Sprachsystem (language system) archaischste unter den heutigen iranischen Sprachen; z.B. 8 Kasus (most archaic language of the modern iranian languages)
Schriftsystem (writing system) none
Fortleben (survival) lebende Sprache (living language)
Forschungsgeschichte (reaserch language) none

http://www.uni-erfurt.de/sprachwissenschaft/personal/lehmann/CL_Lehr/Indogermania/Osset.html (german link)

Posted by Kaiser Josef to Persians and Hollywood at 10/02/2006 02:38:47 PM

2006-10-02T14:43:00.000-07:00

I agree that there are iranians resembling white greek and mediterranean people, but those iranians look the way they do because of late mixing with for example tjerkessian people from the caucasus. They are caucasian and not some ancient aryan people. Besides, they don't have any similarity to germans or nordic people, just a slight similarity to dark haired russians or certain eastern mediterranean people.

The ancient persians where indeed "sand niggers" and that is histroical fact to all scientifically minded people. The only ones who argue against this are iranians themselves and neo-nazis who have a fetisch for oriental people and want a "de-orientalized" fictional people to share bed with since a "jew" would dirty their image too much.

Also, many of the white iranians on the pictures could be any modern israeli or jew today. They look more israeli than german and would blend in better in Tel-Aviv than in Berlin.

A final note. The typical iranian race is indeed the azeri-turks. 95% of the iranians who invaded my country and turned it into a whore-house have typical azeri-turk features and that is something I hate intuitively. The big nosed jews like Ahdout does not disturb me at all, but the long, pointy, rat-like faces of the azeri-turks makes me burn with hatred for no logical reason.

What I agree

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Posted by Kaiser Josef to Persians and Hollywood at 10/02/2006 02:38:47 PM

Azeri Turks claim to be "Iranian"

2006-09-26T16:32:00.000-07:00

Azeri Turk Claims to be "Iranians":
I, for one, have Azeri blood in me and have azeri family members. We all have Iranian features and look Iranian. Azeris are turkified Iranians but they are not turkic by race. Azeris, along with the Kurds, are the descendants of Medians who were in no way, shape, or form turkic by race. I've also met MANY other Azeris who all look Iranian and you couldnt tell they were Azeri unless they tell you so.

Just becuase they speak a turkish language doesnt make them turkic by race. The Black Africans in Ivory Coast speak french. Does that mean they are French? Uhh...no.

Anatolian Turk:
Can you elaborate me with Iranian feature or Iranian race? Are you hinting that Iranian is a pure race? If there's not a pure race, then how you can catogorize some group to one specific racial term?

yes you are right you can speak persian but does that mean you are persians?

Actually, Iranians(Azeri Turks) and Turks look alike. I suppose you haven't seen pictures of Iranians (or haven't seen Iranians in real life).

Some important points:

1. The phenotype of an ethnic group is not decided by a few individuals but by a large number of the members of an ethnic group. A few blond Persians does not mean that Persians have blond hair. They usually have brown or light brown hair in addition to black hair.

2. You can be a speaker of any ethnic group but ethnically you can belong to another ethnic group. An example would be Gogoosh. She is an Azeri speaker but ethnically she is Persian. Many Azeri turks are Persian speakers but ethnically they are Azeri Turks. There are Kurdish speakers who are ethnically Persians.

Azeri Turks Cultural Utopia

2006-09-26T16:23:00.000-07:00

Azeri Views on "Iranians":
WE ARE ALL IRANI... I dance kordi and turki and understand a bit of it... but i was born in tehran (not that there is anything special about that... i wish i was born in different province)... none of my family is from shahrestan... why do you wanna divide... no offense but its ppl like you who wanna break up iran apart...

kords, baluch, bakhtiari etc. have different CUSTOMS... but our culture is the same... cutoms and culture are too different things... i love to learn about your custom... so teach me instead of keep saying that your are different... let me understand you... dont tell me i dont tell me you are diffent so i dont understand you...

and the ethnic tension... there should be none... everybody is equally abused under the current regim...

iran is no different than usa... so why do we keeping saying oh...im tork.... im kord... im different... we are all IRANI..

Natives of Iran Views on "Iranians":
you know nothing about me, do you even know what you're talking about? When did I want to seperate Iran? Different customs make different cultures. Iran is multi ethnic and multi cultural, you can never put them all into a blender and achieve cultural utopia, that is a fact.

The best thing that can be done is to educate people about others; teaching them mutual respect, of course official language should be Persian.

The US is a mess, can you imagine if the economy turned third world? The country would seperate in an instant along racial lines.

Afghans on Azeri Turks

2006-07-18T14:19:00.000-07:00

Posted by Altsoba

When you use the term “iranian” or “iran” it would indicate a homogeneous country, while the truth of matter is that there is no “Iranian” race nor culture… there is two culture in country that call itself iran…. Turk/Azari culture---dominate culture and elite class and then Central Asian culture… I think it is not fare to us pashton to be labeled and categories as same race, and culture as Persians so called “Iranian people”(a term created by bloody enemey of pashtons----British)…. 1000 years of Turk rule…Turk Saffavid, Qanajired and…of Persian have genetically change their race while culturally have also alter them… before Turk Saffavid subjection of Persians an abvery *friendly* persone majority of Persians were either Suni or Zoroastrians… force conversion… using rape, loot and other barbaric means as a tool was a common practice of these savage yellow dog---turk e khar---saffavid!
Today most Persians or those that claim to be defender of Persian are in fact Turk e Khar in race, and shia in religion. Qazilbash turks in Afghanistan are the diehard “defender” of “Persian” culture against pashtons in Afghanistan.
If you can see the most anti-Afghanistan sobs who openly preach for division of holy Afghanistan are Shia---Turks!
It is an open secret that after soviet defeat, both iran and Pakistan try to smash our face in dirt… the so called civil war in reality the imposed war by both iran and Pakistan…today again iran throw their proxies…. their brother(yellow dogs) hazara are trying to continue their proxy war against America… trying to shade blood of afghans for their own interest!

Thus what oslonor preach not only is very workable and in the interest of Afghanistan but this could be used to bleed both our bloody enemies… ex Pakistan and iran….. remember the best defense is a calculated offense…. Unless you have other practical ideas, I don’t see why you are opposing his incredible ideas. In addition this ant-azari turk(iran) idea will certainly create a backlash against these Turk e Khar’s lap dog----hazara and Qazilbash--- so called “afghan” refugees in iran!(more then 95% of afghan refugees in iran are not afghan…but Afghanistani---mostly all Shia----hazara, qazilbash and…) so as the saying goes… az har do taraaf ke koshta shawaa Fayedaa Islam ast! This approach certinally will be ek Teer o Do Fakhtaak(with one stone killing two birds!) ---minimizing the unholy influnces of “iran” in Afghanistan and then killing them in their own game---playing the religion and ethnic card!

Oslonor Racist

2006-05-05T16:27:00.000-07:00

You are a very racist person and i can tell that you dont know anything about american black are white. you label every black person in america a drug dealer,criminal, and police informers. Also how can a persian person help improve the black race. Who in american even know abouts ther persian race. so why would anybody use a basically unknown group of people within the US to make them look good.wouldnt it be better to use a white person.then race who is so closely link to terrorism.Here a quick lesson. A ghetto is a place, not something you can be. They are located in every country they just have different names like "slums".

Oslonor:
My blog is directed at Jews. It is not really against african Americans. When African Americans cooperate with Jews then they also become a target of critique.

Persians are watched

2006-05-05T16:24:00.000-07:00

It funny how you pcik all the so call persian who like almost white and who care about a persian anyway you are all consider arabs in american and to be watched closely.

Oslonor Member of KKK

2006-05-05T16:20:00.000-07:00

it seem like you are trying real hard to make your wife is white like you. do persian really want to be called white or just worry you might married outside your race. I thought white was consider as a person from europe. cause the last time a check that were white people are from.

P.S. do you have a membership to the KKK!

Oslonor: I have applied but my application has been denied.

Persians are Indians

2006-05-05T16:17:00.000-07:00

Your information is totally wrong. Most of persians live in isfahan, shiraz,.... Almost all of them have black hair, while you can find lighter hair people in North west, where Azari turks live. You can not find that much persian with blue eyes. But there are some people with blue eye in North west.

If ur wife has blue eye, light hair, small nose, I can say she is turk with 99% probability and persian with 0.2% and other race 0.8%.

Persians came Iran from India. To see this, compare persians with Pakestanis, and Keshmiris. Same dark skin, same big noses,.

Azeri Filmmaker

2006-05-05T16:08:00.000-07:00

I agree with some of what you have said about the use of the wrong people such as Rosario Dawson to represent Iranians in Hollywood films. She is not unattrative but I doubt the real Roxane looked anything like her. No one can say for sure whether or not the real Roxane was blond but I doubt Alexander The Great was blond.

I am very much interested in how Iranians are portrayed in Hollywood films because I am, as yet, an unknown Iranian (Mazandaran and Oskou Azerbaijani-Iranian) filmmaker. On both sides of my family there are people with fair or ruddy skin, brownish hair and light eyes. My mother who is Iranian-Azerbaijani was gorgeous when she was young. She resembles Sophia Loren. She had jet black hair when she was young but that doesn't mean anything because I have seen Anglo-Saxons/Anglo-Irish (Elizabeth Taylor) persons and Germans (Maximillian Schell) with jet black hair. I was born with jet black hair that turned reddish-brown by the time I turned two. My sister was a dark blonde with a ruddy complexion when she was born. I had blonde eyebrows when I was a toddler. I have hazel brown eyes and a Roman nose. My nose isn't small but it is not hook shaped or aquiline, not that there is anything wrong with aquiline noses.

Freddy Mercury (a Parsi), Bruce Willis (of German descent), Christopher Reeve (an American) are three examples of men with aquiline noses.

I have to say all of this talk about Azeris vs. Iranians has to stop. You are wrong. You haven't done your research properly. Iranians consisted of the indigenous people of Iran, namely the Elamites, Persians, Medes, Parthians and the Scythians by the time the Achaeminid kings came to rule. One of our tribes included the Germanii. We had Turks, Arabs, Mongols and the Greeks invade Iran at different times but that's not to say that the people of Azerbaijan are Turkic just because they speak a dialect of Turkish. The Caucasus, Armenia and Azerbaijan were all part of the Persian Empire at one point. The Armenians are of Iranian stock and most of them don't even know it! Kurds are of the same race as the Iranians and are not all dark-skinned as someone pointed out. There are a lot of blonds and fair-skinned people amongst them. Croats, Serbs and Bosnians are of Iranian descent. They fled from Iran because they were followers of Manichaeanism. Iranians can be dark-skinned, light-skinned, blonde, brunnette and even black-haired with a range of eye colors. We were and still continue to be a "true" melting pot.

Please do not attempt to segregate Azeris from Iranians. They are one in the same. My father resembles my mother's father, who was from Oskou. My father's family date back to the nobles of the Sassinid dynasty so I consider myself to be a "true Persian" in every sense of the word. His family lived in the Ukraine for a few hundred years but returned to their homeland because they were proud of their heritage. By the way, Iranians do not have Dravadian ancestory. The Indians do. As I pointed out earlier, the indigenous/aboriginal people of Iran, prior to the "Aryan invasion", were the Elamites of Susa. The aryans are said to have come from the steppes of Russia, central Asia or, quite possibly, south-eastern Europe. Persians were not Mediterranean as someone pointed out even though, quite arguably, there is a strong resemblance between Iranians and Mediterraneans. I would like to close by saying that Persians are found about 900 B.C. in the region of Lake Urmia (Azerbaijan). Lastly, the great prophet Zarathustra/Zoroaster is said to have been born in the region of Lake Urmia. Does that make him a Turk? I think not.

Oslonor: Actually Iranian in daily usage refers to AzeriTurks. Persians do not identify themselves as Iranian anymore. They call themselves as Persians.

Fred

2006-05-05T16:03:00.000-07:00

This is an interesting blog. I am NOT persian however my fiance is and I know a lot about iranian culture and the people. What I like about this blog is that you put proof and pictures on here and do not just say some comments without backing it up.

There is no denying that many Iranians in general have high levels of Nordic bloodlines. I have seen for myself some Iranians that I thought were French or Northern Italian. When they told me that they were Iranian I was a little shocked. Now that I am educated it does not surprise me anymore.

It is a joke to say that Iranians are afro arabs. This thinking in my country, the USA, is based on ignorance. Most people in the USA couldn't even point out on a map where Iran is located. In fact, if you mention Persia they will say "carpet" or "cat". Iranians belong to an ancient Indo European people. In the South you will find some Arabs but that does not make it an arab country. It would be like calling the USA a Chinese country since you will find Chinese people in some major cities. The USA is a European based country and Iran is an Indo European country.

It should be noted that many Iranians have a small amount of Mongrel blood just like some Americans have some Indian blood. I hope in the future I can read more of your blogs.

Oslonor:
Iranians usually refers to AzeriTurks. Persians are the native population of Iran or Persia. Not sure what you mean by mongrel. There are Uzbeks in Iran. Also some AzeriTurks have mongolian features. But this is not related to Persians.

In Iran, nobody describes themselves as Persian.

2006-04-30T01:01:00.000-07:00

In Iran, nobody describes themselves as Persian. Persian basically means Iranian proper (Iranian stock, Farsi language) or Great Iranian in the sense that proper Russians used to be described as Great Russians while related peoples like the Belarussians were called White Russians.

There are several groups which the Persians would consider as close (but not identical) brethren. These include the Gilaki, Mazandarani and Kords. Sometimes the Lor and Bakhtiari are also considered as brethren but not as close I don't think (they are often viewed with suspicion as they are tribesmen and historical events). There is a recognition that Baluchis are related to Persians but they are viewed with suspicion because they have probably mixed somewhat with non-Iranian people.

The Arabs and Turkmen are definitely not regarded as brethren of the Persians (but these people are probably still largely Iranian though with significant admixture). The Azaris are more complicated. Some view them as brethren; others do not. IMO they are Persians with slight Oghuz Turk admixture (perhaps on the order of 5-10%, say). We're looking at a classical Turkish elite imposing its dominance on a Persian populace I think in Azarbaijan.

As for the accuracy of the CIA figures, note that they have a vested interest in making the Persians look as weak as possible (they fund opposition groups like SANAM which seeks Azari independence). So perhaps the figures are too low even. Also, if the claims of the minorities in Iran were taken into account Persians wouldn't even make up 5% of the population. So you have to take that with a pinch of salt. Also, places like Gilan can maintain highly concentrated populations whereas the mountainous areas are populated less sparsely.

If I were pushed to come up (using the CIA figures) with the proportion of true Iranians, or Aryans if you want to call it that, I would calculate as follows. At the least, being very strict, I would say that the Persians (51%), Gilakis and Mazandaranis (8) and Kords (7%) were Aryan (66%). Perhaps 5% are not pure leaving 61%. A medium estimate, probably followed by most Persians, would include the Lors and Bakhtiari (5%) and this would leave (taking out the unpure) the Aryan population at about 66%. Now if you were to include the Azari who have no Turkic admixture (22%) this would come to 90%. Some Baluchis may be pure Iranian too but their numbers are so small that it would not change the figure much.

In short, I would say that at least 60% of Iranians are of pure Iranian stock but this may range as high as 90%.

Persian is a synonym for Iranian in the West. Persians are simply Iranians (Persian, Parthians, Scythians and so on) who have discarded their tribal identity and adopted only the Iranian identity. So, strictly, Persians are simply Iranians proper (by that I mean their only identity is Iranian). There are some Iranian groups (Kords, Tajiks, Gilakis, Lors) who are still Iranian but not Iranian proper (or Persian) because they still have a tribal identity. So I don't mean to say that only tribal Persians are true Iranians (I myself am from Tehran and Mashhad so I'm from nowhere near Fars).

If I am being honest, I no longer consider Pashtuns as Iranian and they can go to hell for all I care. This is because they do not think of themselves as Iranian. In fact, they spit on Iran and have forgotten all Iranian customs (Nowrouz etc). Many identify with India more than Iran (although looking at their genetics they have been heavily Indianised like the Parsis). Many Kords hate Iran too sadly but at least they have not forgotten most of their Iranian ways. I have not spoken to Ossetians (or should that be Ironians) but I should imagine they are like the Pashtuns (although I hope they are not). Iran is our country not Afghanistan or Kordestan or Iron. I hope you agree with what I am saying as an Iranian nationalist.

Kords should learn Kordish (I'll leave the dialect up to you ) and Persian together. As I understand it, this is the situation in schools in Kordish areas of Iran today. And Kords should have their own newspapers and TV/radio stations. This does no harm to Iran; in fact, it makes Iran stronger in my opinion.

Iran must have a single official language for practical reasons. This should be Persian because it is the majority language of Iran (soon the Gilaki and Mazandarani will cease to use their own dialects/languages and I think the same will happen with the Lori and Bakhtiari now that most have settled). If Kordish were made an official language then we would also have to make Azari an official language (I would oppose that strongly and I hope you would to). So it would not be feasible to make Kordish an official language. If it were to become an official language (and Azari doesn't) though I would not lose sleep over it (but to be honest I don't see that happening).

Oslonor:
So you are promoting the Azeri Turk "Iranian race" theory so Azeri Turks be included as natives of Persia!!!! And Persians have disappeared??????

I have to disagree. Turkomens are natives of Iran. Azeri Turks are foreigners to Iran. Azeri Turks are regarded as low in intelligence. Turkomans share an ancient culture with the natives of Iran. Only an Azeri Turk like you can lie so much on this forum. Turkomans are honest people. Also I see as usual you as an Azeri Turk claim that you are from Mashhad. That is another lie. Also Pashtoons saved Persia from these Azeri Turks in 17 century by destroying the Saffavids Azeri Turk dynasty.

From my blog: The Rise of Afghan Empire
Also note that we do not consider Iran and social forces running Iran in terms of religion i.e. secular versus religious, or in terms of ethnicity such as Turks and Persians but in terms of culture.

Azeris are turks and their culture is similar to the culture in Caucasus. Azeri Turk culture is not indigenous to Iran. Turkomans and Uzbeks are also Turks but they have a Central Asian culture. Turkomans and Uzbeks are indigenous to Iran.

An Afghan talking to an Azeri Turk Iranian speaking in Dari or Farsi can recognize in a few minutes that the Azeri Turk does not belong to the same central asian cultural group as an Afghan does. This is true even when they are speaking the same language.

That is why these people from Tehran and Isfahan with a Azeri turkish culture from Caucasus have no relation with the history of Persian Empire and culture. They are as foreign to the Persian Cultural and historical heritage as some chechens living in Caucasus.

http://afghanempire.blogspot.com/

Caspiar

2006-04-23T14:56:00.000-07:00

Again, some of what you have said is accurate. Then again, some is not. Yes, modern-day Iraqi's are not all Arabs for they have Persian blood in them from the time the empire of the Achaeminid kings stretched from the Indus Valley to North Africa and from the Aral Sea to the Persian Gulf. However, I would like to reiterate that you should STOP calling Azeris Turks. They are aryans not Turks. They are an ethnic group of Iranians like the Persians, Kurds, Baluchis, Turkomans, Lurs, etc. Yes, the Turkomans are Turkish but NOT the Azeris. You are getting Turkomans and Azeris mixed up. Besides, if an Azeri and a Turk from Istanbul were, let's say, to try and hold a conversation, it wouldn't last 10 seconds because their languages are quite dissimilar. Azerbaijan was once the heart of Iran and it still would be if the Russians hadn't fought long and hard to take it from us. The Azeris, like the Afghanis, are a strong and proud Nordic people who can really put up a fight. As a matter-of-fact, some Azeris are Russian. For your information, even the Turks of Turkey are a mixture of aryan and mongolian. The Azeris were invaded by the Turks and were, thus, forced to speak their language. It was imposed on them, don't you understand? Stop trying to divide Iranians. Haven't Iranians been divided long enough? I have lived all over the world and have been dissapointed to discover that many people, for one reason or another, wrongly assume that Persians are non-aryan. For some time now I have come to realize why our country has become an Islamic Republic: it's because we are divided from within. I'd like to point out that even the pictures you show don't validate what you are attempting to claim. Miss Germany 2005, a Persian, has black hair. Does that make her a Turk? Iman, the guy you show to be Azeri, has beautiful blue eyes and, as far as I'm concerned, aryan features akin to Jude law. So I suggest you really think about what you are saying and rather than make grandiose or unfounded claims, why don't you read certified journals and publications on the subject of the aryans and the peoples of Ancient Persia? I can't believe your wife is an Iranian and can put up with your nonsensical theories. There is no significant difference between Persians and Azeris - they are one and the same. Moreover, I can't believe most of the anonymous commentators, who happen to be Iranian, also believe that Azeris are Turks. It is such a pity that very few Iranians bother to research the splendor and rich history of one of the greatest civilizations the world has ever seen.

Posted by Anonymous to Persians and Hollywood at 4/20/2006 11:34:57 PM

2006-04-21T01:37:00.000-07:00

Lots of ignorant people on this site. The original blogger is correct. Persians come from lily white to light olive, with dark hair and dark eyes, dark hair and blue or green eyes to blonde. You don't have to be Azeri to be blonde, first of all.

To the guy who went to Iran- you probably were looking at some mixed Persians.

To the idiots on here... Persians originally come from the Russian Steppes. New scientific evidence shows that people evolved in different places. This is just another way for africans to revise history. Persians are cousins to Germans, Celts, Greeks, Italians, Slavs, etc.

Iraninas were NEVER African. The only blacks in Iran are in the South and they are mixed with Arabs. A lot of ARABS have African blood, except Lebanese, and some who just speak arabic and are in fact not really arab to begin with. The blacks were slaves in ancient Iran (though mostly treated like servants and not like in colonial US). Ethnic Persians are mostly in Central and Northern Iran. Those in the border who speak Persian, are ethnic arabs.

Those are who you are thinking have African in them. They aren't Persian and will never be though of as Persian. Nationality isn't Ethnicity. Deal with it. Nice try. Just talk to any educated anthropologist. And Persians are Caucasian.

And for the record, I'm of Zoroastrian descent.

I see there are a lot of freakin' morons on here. I have lots of Germans, French, and some Irish in my large family. People in Germany still call Persians "brothers".

I'm flattered Africans want to claim Persian history as theirs, but get a clue and an education please. No educated person accepts that. You are the same people who claim Cleopatra was black. HA HA.

--
Posted by Anonymous to Persians and Hollywood at 4/20/2006 11:34:57 PM

Comments Persian and Hollywood

2006-04-21T01:13:00.000-07:00

Anynomous

You're a moron. Us Persians don't need white people like you telling us who we are. We KNOW who we are. We don't WANT to be white. Europeans are NOT Aryan. You never were, and you never will be. Aryans today are Persian, Afghan, Indian, And Pakistani. And WE ARE NOT WHITE. AND WE ARE PROUD. The only racist person I see here is you, NOT HOLLYWOOD. You seem so ashamed of the fact that your wife is not white, that you will try anything in your power to get her to be white. NEWSFLASH: The myth that Germans are Aryan has been proven false COUNTLESS times. There is NO Indo-European race. The Aryan race was INDO-IRANIAN. Persians and Iranians don't like Europeans, we don't care about Europeans, our culture is completely different than Europeans. WE ARE NOT LIKE YOU. GIVE IT A REST. YES, PERSIANS DO LOOK VASTLY DIFFERENT. Even Dariush, the Shah of Iran had bushy, curly, black hair, and light brown skin, with a hooked nose. You're a damn idiot. ARYANS ARE NOT EUROPEAN, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR STUPID SKULL. When will white people stop trying to be Iranian? And I hope you know that those pictures you posted are mostly of Iranian girls who have had nose jobs, tatooted their eyebrows, and dyed their hair. It's very popular to do those things in Iran, if you knew anything about Iran, you would know that. Get a life. It's very easy to go through a bunch of pictures of a group of people and pick out 5 that look "white" and then post them and come to a conclusion. you're an idiot. Indo-European is a lie. A lot of Iranians have Arab blood. Arabs and Iranians have been in contact with eachother for thousands of years, it's natural. Hhahahah I can't believe you're basing your facts on what a few stupid German philosophers believed in the 19th century. YOU'RE BASING YOUR FACTS ON NAZISM. I'm sorry to tell you, but you're quite late. It has already been proved that the links that were made between Germans and Iranians were false. Germans are not Aryan in any way. If an Iranian ever tells you that he or she is white, it is because they are ashamed of themselves because people like you make it a bad thing for dark people in the world to be dark-skinned and dark-haired. Same reason why so many blacks in the States claim to have "Native" blood. Grow up and realize that Europeans are not Aryan. HITLER WAS WRONG, THE NAZIS WERE WRONG, AND YOU ARE WRONG TOO.

Oslonor: You are an Azeri Turk and you make up all this to be able to hide yourself behind the label of Persian. Sorry those pictures are the picutres of live Persians. Azeris look different from Persians.

Never

Never: Iranians have been proven to have gene markers in common with sub-saharan africans and semitic peoples of the middle-east. So what if you have the same genes? accept reality. You are definately not WHITE, but you are caucasoid with a variation of skin color ranging from light to dark. I can post pictures of any race with people that have blue, green or grey eyes so it doesnt matter. Anyone can post the minority and pretend it to represent the whole. I have been to Iran 4 times and can tell you it looks no different than Syria, India or Kuwait in terms of how the people look! Some are lighter skinned in the north while others are darker. That is it. You are Iranian (from an old persian ethnic group since persia doesnt exist anymore however I will let you claim you are persian if it makes you happy). I have seen so many Iranians/Persians pretending to be Italian/Protuguese but it is so obvious they are not. No other culture hates itself so much and wants to be something else. Pathetic. I bet if you delete this you are a fool because you cannot handle the truth. You are not white, I would never accept you as white or european.

Oslonor: Actually I am not Iranian. Those DNA tests you are talking about are not Y chromosome tests. They are mtDNA tests. Those tests can prove the Polish have the same genes as Africans in Congo or African Americans are Scandinavians!!! I think you should look carefully at the pictures I have posted on my blog. You are talking about Azeris who are a majority in Iran and I agree with you about that. And there is no Iranian race. You have to be specific which ethnic group you talk about. I can say the same about Americans. Americans are white or black does not make any sense.

Singapore

Hi I'm a Chinese person living in Singapore and I stumbled upon your blog... enjoyed reading it and learning about your country's ethnic history. Firstly I agree that your people, the Aryan Persians, have been unfairly stereotyped in Hollywood, especially when being portrayed as another race (ie:- dark-skinned, etc). The filmmakers in Hollywood should do more research, but you know they don't usually care about such things ;). Secondly, if the entire Persian empire used to be Aryan, why are Aryan Persians a minority in Iran today? Is it because many of the original Aryan Persians intermarried with the other races? Lastly, I was surprised to find you stating on your blog that Aryan culture was involved in China. I'm curious as to what Aryans have to do with China, its culture and history? Thanks,

Oslonor:Persians were a minority in ancient times. And they are a minority now.Yes. check on Tocharian for Aryans in China. http://www.oxuscom.com/eyawtkat.htm

Wannabe Nordics

What a coincidence. I was thinking along the same lines this past week, although my "version" is a bit more general. In the US, there seems to be a tendancy for any particular ethnic group to identify itself with the "whitest" group possible. In your post, you gave an example of many caucasions trying to be "Nordic" when they obviously were not. Your observation is just the tip of the iceberg, and it pales (no pun intended) in comparison to the silliness I witness everyday.

Ironically, it's the non-whites who are the most "Wannabe Nordic." Many Mexicans that I know never acknowledge their American Indian and African ancestry, preferring to liken themselves to whites of Med. decent (Italians being to most popular). In reality, many of them are indistinguishable from Phillipinos.

Then there are the Mid. Easterners, a few of whom I've caught impersonating Greek people! Again, many play down the non-white part of of their heritage in favor of the white one. "we're like Armenians, Greeks, Turks, ..." is what I overheard an Iranian man say the other day. Not that I'm a nazi or anything, but I found that remark insulting, since, quite frankly, I see little resemblance between Greeks and Persians. Right by my house, there is a "Greek" restaurant with all the trimmings: souvlaki, spanakopita, gyros, tiropita, etc. Notis Sphakianakis, along with other Greek singers, is constantly playing in the background; yet, the owners are obviously not Greek, and don't seem to mind being mistaken as such. Maybe I'm just overeacting, but it's rather annoying.

This obsession even affects people who could never pass for caucasian in any way, shape, or form. On numerous occasions, I've seen classy, successful, Asian women together with the scummiest white trash. On seeing this, I can't help but wonder, "would she ever go out with an Asian man who lived in a trailor park?" Probably not, unless of course, he had blond hair and blue eyes.

Oslonor: Yes. Iranian Azeri Turks are not in anyway related to Greeks.

Azeri and Aryan

Who do you think are? I know all people are from one origin, and adopted with enviornment, I don't how white race borned, I think actually we have not races we have just people in different looking and colour in some groups, for example germans are different from italian, we can't say german are pure and italian mixed there is no pure meaning , we have two different group, and just there characters show which is whiter or more pleasent, people can mix and generate even some more beautiful race (group of people in a moment), and change over time, its the way aryan borned, they were sometimes like monkeys like all other people and then each grouped changed, and this story still continued, But if you speak about history of nations, it has no relation to their current or past race, cause race is dynamic and history too, but till people keep a tradition they counted belonging two a ancient group, this posture of European is rediculose if they think they are an specefic or pure people, do they know where is their origin,also they can't claim they all have anythink superior or even beautiful, its dynamic and define in moments, also the history and envirnment effects people life and have no relation to race, For example a mixed people of aryan and mungols (Turks) can be even more beautiful or talented, you can't isolate yourself, you borned from these peoples and every moment new races are borned, your white colour is the result of Europe condition and in such conditions it can be continued, and have no relation to you, even nobody can say fair white is an interesting colour than black, I am white but not much fair and a little golden, I think this colour is more interesting, I am Iranian, you can think Iranian pure aryan or mixed people, but if you know Iranian, they have one of the most beautiful people that you can't find anywhere, for another example swedish are beautiful people, Italian too, you think they are pure? not , maybe you don't know Aryan, they can be mix of Aryan and other people , call them nordic, but again good

Dienekes

Dear Dienekes

I have read a lot of material out there suggesting that blonde-haired blue-eyed aryans (indo-iranians) suddenly dropped down from northern Europe or central Asia to settle Iran and India. Later they mixed with Semitic peoples and that is why Iranians today have a dark cmplexion. This is partially based on Hitler and De Gobineau's racist philosophy and I find no evidence for this. Even though, linguistically Iranians share a few words with European language this is not necessarilly indictive of a common lineage (Arabs in Lebanon speak Arabic but are genetically different from Saudi Arabians). It is known that in the early 1900's the British took over the oil industry in Iran, stealing oil and introducing some new words (in Farsi the words for energy and bad are the same as the English words). It should also be noted that the word Aryan was first found in Iran. First in the Zoroastrian Avesta and later on a inscription made by Darius. Climotolgy points to a gradual warming of the world, not cooling, about 15-10 thousand years ago. This would have made it more likely for the Aryans to have developed in a southern area and migrated north as before the warming central Asia was covered by ice. Increased rainfall in Iran also meant that the central salt deserts were once lakes. Here is and interesting excerpt from Zoroastrian mythology pointing to this "...In the second phase of the creation of the world, Ahura Mazda created the waters, and the waters flowed towards Farakhekrat Sea which covers one third of the world from the southern outskirts of Alborz." This could have been where the Aryan/ IndoIranian peoples first started and later migrated out as the lake dried up. Let us not forget that in the city of Susa up to 12 thousand years ago, while Central Asia was covered by ice, we have discovered pottery with advanced paintings. Now it is highly unlikely that a group of blonde-haired, blue-eyed peoples suddenly invaded and destroyed the local culture. Even if they did they would have been sunburnt bad and would have to rapidly adapt from cold to hot climates. In reality it is more likely that the aryans where tan skinned and dark eyed/haired (without any relation to Hitlers "supreme" race). I myself have green eyes and this already freaks a lot of people out considering I'm 100% Iranian. But in short the IndoIranian Aryans emerged from central Iran and migrated either across the Iranian plateau or into India where they mixed with Dravidians.

Posted by: Iranian at May 3, 2004 06:07 PM

Rouz

Quote from: rouz on Today at 12:19:44 PM Rouz: Iranian leadership is, like many other nations, based on money (power), connections and ones adaptability to the politicall arena. Unfortunately I fail to see the Azeri connection that you are claiming and what it has to do with the topics in your blogs and forum where you present fantasies about diffrent races.

Oslonor: What do you mean by "present fantasies about different race". It is very clear that you mean the Azeri race is an "Iranian race" and there are no other nationalities in Iran besides your "Iranian race". It seems that you imagine that all Iranians have been turned into turks by now. This is exactly the reason for my blog. Azeris are turks. They are racially different from other ethnic groups in Iran. And they do not originate from Medes or Persians. Azeris originate from Seljuk turks. There is no "Iranian Race" that you claim you are a member of this race.

Azeris are not Iranians they are Turks. Yes they were once Iranic people but due to asimilation process they are now what they are. The same is let's say for iother ethnicities: most of arabs in norts africa a decendants of berbers but they concider themselves arabs not berbers, most germans in eastern germany are decendants of slavs but they concider themselves germans. Nowadays for most of Iranians who fear that they state might collapse because of Azerbaijanis willingness to rebuild historical justice and to create independent state, iranians create lots of myts claiming that azeris feel themselves iranians. So what? Let they think in the same way if they feel so confident :D The truth will never be perished!

Salaams. Please join my egrouyps. Merci.

Its called ARYANSEMITEPRIDE: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARYANSEMITEPRIDE/ Greetings. Salaams. As Chapter 17 of WESTERN CIVILIZATION THROUGH MUSLIM EYES by Sayid Mujtaba Rukni Musawi Lari:"The theory of Apartheid,based on the utterances of some innovating thinker ("Philosopher") denies racial equality. Its promoters want "the superior race" to run the World while, "weaker inferior races" serve them....No pure race exists. No scientific evidence proves the race theory definately. An "Aryan" race is a myth. History does not relate the actuality of a race which called itself "ARYAN".The "Aryan" family of languages is a fact (see History of religion page 219). National Socialism's rise was part cause of World War II. Hitler's Germany's ideology was "One race shall rule"-of course the "German Nordics"_who were to be found a strong centre (sic, center) of Government in mid-Europe. Its brief brutal regime, by means of Congresses at Nuremberg and elsewhere , and fanatic racial propaganda, drew the loyalty of German nationals who made great, if illusory, profit from their dominance of the neighboring lands." Men have oppressed men since the beginning of time, women have been oppressed by a male dominated world for far too long, now whilke seeking justice, women have sought to be feminsists who seek to wipe out the need for men and promote lesbianism, males who are left to marry late in life and without a companion seek the Gay route-this is our society today. No one is interested in addressing the nation's number one pollutant: racism. No one seems to be interested in addressing Patroitic blindness for the excessive abuse of the law and human rights by the CIA and US government. The US government hunts Aryan Groups who ar not racist but seek pride in itself and its heritage. Imam Khomeini(RA) even said that "nothing is wrong with patroitism" and pride in one's heritage but racism and oppressing ort manipulating the laws, lies about weapons of mass deception, abusing the Geneva Convention by persecuting POWs is wrong Mr. BUSH and Mr. Tony puddle...

azeris are of course not persian, infact they are of turanid-turkic descent and have distinctively different features when compared to persians- farsi descended populations. for example most of the kurds and persians have real dark skin resulting 11 and more in luschan scale and mostly are dolicocephalic. turkic populations in contrary mostly have dark hair-eyes accompanied with occasional light skin & bracycephaly (a progressive trait). irano afghan race infact is subrace under mediterranean-caucasoid category. the same subrace(w/o dravidic elements unlike in iran) overrun by alpine populations have resulted in the hyper bracycephalic light skinned hook nosed armenoid type common among some armenians, minor in eastern anatolian turks(planoccupitalism never occurs in these cases) and mostly among ashkenazi jews. the irano-afghan type itself is very common among sepharadic jews and unmixed arabs of yemen and whole saudi peninsula. there are theories that nordic populations have also descended from these dark caucasians(irano-afghan) of iranian plateau and got depigmented along the migrations northwards but this can be refuted by the scientific fact the whole trans-iranian plateua could never support such a stream of population. what we can easily detect is that the whole iranian plateau which was once populated by mediterranean populations were first invaded by small numbers of nordic invaders originationg from transoxania whom imposed their warrior-aryan legacy and language over the native populations(a good percentage of mixtures have occured as can be seen from the pictures of the exotic indo european speakers such with extreme dark skin, long faces and light eyes (ie farsi, mzandarani, lori, gilaki, northern indians, kashmiris, kurds, gypsies etc) iran then was subsequently overrun by turkic populations in the north and a strong dravidic influence among all iranian populations except azeris(oghuz turks) and northern farsis whom intermixed with turkic or caucasian(alan, sarmatian etc) populations. persians along with all other middle easterners and southwest asians have a small amount of nordic admixture(so do the gypsies, kashmiris, bengalis, arabs etc). shame on you trying to portray your own people as of european stock instead of cherishing your rich heritage, trying to be whites and insulting turanic people for it. a clear demonstration of inferiority complex. -- Posted by Anonymous to Persians and Hollywood at 11/03/2005 04:56:25 PM

Oslonor: I think you misunderstand what Nordic means. You should read my blog on Nordic. Nordic does not mean blond hair. It only defines the dimensions of the skull. According to that, then Persians are nordic. And the history you are describing is mostly imaginary history. But I agree with you that Azeris originate from Turanid-Turks. And they have different racial characteristics from Persians. Persians want to be portrayed as Persians and not as Turks or Arabs. That is what this blog is about. Otherwise Persians have very good relation with all central Asian and Anatolian Turks and Azeri Turks. Here is the definition of Nordic-Iranian: The Nordic-Iranian type D1 lies between Anglo-Saxon and Keltic area norms, and D2 is the earlier pre-Bronze Age Corded form which Coon identifies. Type D3, lighter and more hawk-nosed, is transitional to the Mediterranean type B4 and to type D4 (Iranian), which is the Proto-Iranian of Vallois, Irano-Afghan of others, and Proto-Nordic of Krogman, and which is more linear and more rugged than D3 and has a more tilted chewing plane, more nasal convexity, and deeper occiput. Type D5 approximates Coon's Danubian-Halstatt and successor Central European forms.

Anatolian Turk versus Ashkenazi Jew (Wannabe European)

Are you talking about me??? First of all I am not a "white" nationalist, where did I even hint such a thing? Also, I don't claim any relationship with Finns and Hungarians. As I said I don't want to be a Caucaisan, Caucasoid, Aryan or whatever. You are the one wanting to be something that you aren't, " Can I pass for this or that, blah, blah, blah" with all your inferiority complex. I don't want to be anything else. We are what we are. I don't want to put into a dumb category, I don't want to be classified anything but a Turk, I don't seek refugee in a greater group like racialists do. You have a comprehension problem, I am just claiming I am a Turk, or I am the Turk as Seizure said. FYI, I like East Asians more than Europeans. I just don't think that we Turks are East Asians just like we are not Europeans. We are neither this nor that. Next time be careful what you are talking about. Also, Atilla was a Hun, i.e a Turk, not a Magyar. And we are claiming him, OK.

Comment Oslonor: I completely agree with what you say. The same for Persians. We do not want to be Europeans either. (Anatolian Turk was discussing with some Ashkenazi Jews. "wannabe Europeans")

Comments by Z

i, I recently found your site while doing a search for Aryans and must say, am very impressed. Most people today like to think of Persians as being non-European looking, mostly saying they look more like me (I myself am an Arab from Lebanon) This of course, is absurd and seems to fit more into the cookie-cutter, Politically Correct, Hollywood standard of etnicity and culture. A good example of the absurdity of modern perception is the movie "Alexander", which potrayed Baktrian Roxane as an African American named Rosario Dawson. This of course is laughable. I, as a non Persian, have no qualms with you for merely stating the truth, which has been white-washed by modern Hollywood, mostly for its desire to hurt blonde haired, blue eyed types which they despise. (A good example of this is the "dumb blonde" stereotype. Since we're on the topic of Hollywood white-washing, I wanted to mention a future movie on the life of Carthagenian general Hannibal which will star Denzell Washington. As a descendent of the Phonecians (Carthagen was a Phonecian colony in north Africa, which by the way wasnt populated by blacks anyways)it deeply troubles me to think that someone had the pinhead idea to make Hannibal, who probably looked more like me (albeit a bit manlier)then a Sub-Saharan, a people who at the time werent even in North Africa, but came later with slavery in the middle ages. Anyways, those are my two cents. I wish you the best of luck and ill be sure to pass it along to my Persian friends.

Pejman: Hi Dude, your information is SO WRONG. No wonder you are not persian nor iranian :) Your blog is hilarious lol First of all a lot of azeri's are mixed with persians, they are mixed and not "pure" this or that. Second of all your percentages are all wrong and descriptions, azeri's actually have light hair sometimes and coloured eyes just like some persians. Really you have no clue what you are talking about, not that I'm trying to be rude though. The word Iran is best described via in Farsi, the way it's written in farsi and pronounced, you should know that it does not mean "Aryan", it's eeyran which is different. Many countries are made up of many different peoples, ayran/eeyran is the coming together of tribes, there is NO country that has "pure" race or peoples, that is a myth. take care.

Oslonor: Yes. There are a few Azeris who are mixed with Persians in Tehran. But those are considered Azeris and not Persians as they look similar to Azeris. The majority of Azeris are not mixed with anybody and they are just Azeris. But for the rest of Iran that different ethnic groups live in different provinces and there are no Azeris in those provinces. Persians and Kurds and Baloch and Turkoman live in their home provinces and are not related to Azeris. Azeris mainly live in Tehran and Azerbaijan in North West Iran. To see how Persians and Azeris look like please visit Persians and Hollywood

On Iranians and African Americans

Comment 1: I actually know Mr. Tehran. He is a good friend of mine from college at George Mason University in VA. His is bi-racial. His father is Iranian. I know because I have met his parents. He speaks fluent Farsi and his accent is because like many other Iraninas including myself, he was brought up in the states. Shahram and Ali are also disappointed with your choice of words. I don't know where your from, but here in Northern VA/Washington DC we don't have hate for one another. We are one country united for peace not destruction like you and Mr. Bush suggest. Comment 2:

Reply: It is a new fashion for African-Americans to call themselves "Multi-Racial". Usually they say that they are partly white. To say they are partly "Iranian" is something very new.

4:04 PM

Anonymous said...

The Persians in Iran constitute 22% of the population of Iran, at the same time the Azeri Turks are 52% of the population of Iran. Furthermore, the persians in Iran are a mixture of Arabs, and Africans, and claim of that persians are Aryans, is a fabrication of peopole who feel inferior abut their afro-arab heritage.

6:50 PM

Anonymous said...

What is the problem with iranians about to be white or not? Why do you insist to be a white people even though it is not true, of course there are a few white iranians with blond hair, but this doenst mean that you are really a white people. Dutchman were in Brazil Northeast and you can find people looking like a nordic , but it doens mean that brazilans from that region are white just because there is some fews with blue eyes. I think the prejudice is not in hollywood, but in yourself. Look to you like really you are. hugs...

9:25 PM

Anonymous said...

[The following is in response to the previous anonymous poster] It amazes me to see the previous poster stating that Iranians want to be labeled as White. They don't! How can you compare what's been stated about the Persians to the White Dutch-Brazilians? Comparisons like this make me cringe! By now you should know that the Persians have lived in Iran for thousands of years -- prior to any Europeans venturing out of their homelands to setup colonies. (Iran, up to the 18th century, was something of a fairyland to the Europeans.) Do you understand what that implies? Let me spell it out for you. Iran's Persian population (currently under 17 million) is indigenous, and has been for thousands of years. We are not talking about isolated groups of White offsprings in some far out land being colonized by the Dutch or any other Europeans for that matter! In other words, Persians are the only minority in Iran that can claim their Indo-European link; none of the other minorities (Assyrians, Azeris, etc.) can do that. Do yourself a favor, and once again take a close look at the photos of Shermine Sharivar (Miss Germany 2005), and Rudi Bakhtiar (CNN anchor). Do they look Arab, or African to you? Look at the Persian men in the photos. Do you see Afro, Arab, or Azeri features in them? Fact of the matter is that they are all White, non-European, Aryan Persians. I think part of the reason for your prejudice is due to the current political climate in the Middle-East, and partly, due to the fact that you (like millions of others) continue to erroneously equate all Iranian to Persians. Thank God reality does not depend on your beliefs, or else entire races would vanish in a blink of an eye. Cheers, and Hugs...(the Persian way!) -- Ed

Kasra:

I am a Persian, and I really find this thread offensive. What the heck do you mean that Azeri Turks have a fascist agenda? Azeri Turks are Iranian just as any other Iranian. Iran is a very multicultural nation, because the Turks, Persians, Arabs, Kurds and so on have been living in the region for centuries, and none of them had a racist ideology of not mixing with other people, so Iranians are a very mixed people. The words Azeri, Persian and so on in Iran only refer to the language spoken. Not really ethnicity. To talk about half Azeri-half Persian is absolutely meaningless in Iran, because everybody is mixed! If a person talks Persian, he is considered a Persian! What the heck is Turkification? Turks have no intention of Turkification of Iran! Just because some Turks demand equal rights and right to speak and teach Turkish languages, some Racist stupid Supremacist Persians claim baseless accusations to excuse their hostility toward other minorities. I believe that these Persians are traitors to Iran and to Persian people. We Iranians have been living for many centuries without these racist crap, and now these half-intellectual Hitleries want to start racial and ethnic enemity among us. For what? Just because of their inferiority complexes. They think if they claim that Persians are Aryans, and different from "lower people" Turks and Arabs, then the Westerners will not treat them as Turks and Arabs!!!!!!!!!! What the heck do you mean by Pan Turkism? There is no such thing in Iran. This is pure baseless B-S. I don't even bother to look at your blog. What I see here stinks enough, you are just one idiot who thinks who knows a lot. You don't see my point because you don't know anything about Iran at all. Almost every typical Iranian extended family has individuals who are Persian, Turkish, Kurdish, Gilaki, Lori and Arab speaking. If you deny this that means you know nothing about Iran. Just go to any random wedding party in Tehran and talk to people and you will find all these languages among the guests. If you don't know this fact, thats because either you are not an Iranian but somebody else who knows nothing about Iran, or you know it and deliberately distort the facts. If Azeris are running Iran as you baselessly claim, then how is it that Azeris are not allowed to speak Azeri in Schools even in Azerbaijan? The Islamic government as well as the Shah government both have been trying to assimilate the languages into Persian, which is absolutely wrong thing to do. And now some stupid guy comes and say Iran is run by Azeris? Yes, and probably according to you, Russia is run by Chechens and Turkey is run by Kurds and the US is run by Mexicans too. You are truly miserable. 1- Tehran or New York City are multicultural, multi-language, multi-ethnic societies. And there are all sorts of people living there. You agree with that. 2- A typical American usually doesn't have one ethinc origin, if you ask them most of them will say something like they are mixture of Irish,German, Native American, Italian, Swedish, Russian and so on. The same thing is correct about a typical Iranian, If you don't know, that a typical Iranian is also a mixture of Persian,Greek,Arab,Turkish,Indian,African,Mongol and so on. 3- However, unlike the US that is assimilated into one large English speaking nation, Iran is more like Canada, with different parts speaking different languages. A French speaking Canadian is not really French, and an English speaking Canadian is not really English. Turkish speaking and Persian speaking Iranians are in the same way as Canadians. They are not really ethnic groups. 4- Now your baseless and completely laughable claim is that one of these ethnic groups in Iran, that is the Azeri Turks, are trying to Turkify others too! That is an absolutely baseless claim. Azeri people are just some people living with the other people. That is all. 5- You may hate Azeris for any reason, but do you really have to make a fool of yourself by this kind of baseless stupid accusations? And insisting on it too? 6- Your idiotic accusation is an insult to Azeris and to every other Iranian. I take it as a direct attack to Iran. If you are Iranian, you are a traitor, if not, you are an enemy of this nation. 7- Go to hell you racist bastard. end of discussion.

Oslonor: In New York, if you go to any wedding, there are chinese, Anglo Saxons, Blacks and hispanics. Does that mean that all these people belong to the same ethnic group. Certainly not. Same goes for your Tehran wedding. But what you say is different. You are saying there are no ethnic groups in Iran and Azeris, Gilakis and Persians and Kurds and Lors are the same people. They just speak different dialects. This is called Pan-Turkism. Pan Turkist use Persian as their primary language because that is the only way they can run Iran. These people have different origin and they are not the same people. The reason for this confusion is your experience is based in Tehran where there are a few Azeris who speak only Persian so you think they are Persians. You may have an agenda where all Iranians are a mix of Azeris but Persians, Kurds and other ethnic groups want to keep their ethnic identity and they do not want to be a half Azeri. Sorry Iran is not US and people in Iran have kept their ethnic identity for thousands of years. Lors are really LOrs and Kurds are really Kurds and Persians are really Persians. All ethnic groups want to keep their ethnic identity. Only Azeris want to destroy other ethnic groups. Most Iranians consider Azeris as an alien culture to Iran and responsible for Azeri Turk Islamic Republic.

Comments by Humit:

You've certainly developed a case for racial apartheid here. Very dangerous logic indeed... So tensions in American race relations stem from racial integration? Let's take your logic seriously for a moment and apply it to the United States... How would you recommend we divide our cities and states to ensure each ethnic community can flourish in their isolation?

Non-Racism in Iran: One of the reasons that Iran is a completely non-racist society, unlike India where they have caste system or US is the structure of Iranian population. Every ethnic group lives in a separate province. Persians in South and North East and Azeris in North West. That is how every ethnic group has maintained its identity for thousands of years. The Azeri regime policies will lead to a completely racist society where people will be judged on the color of their skin and how much Persian or Azeri heritage the mixed race people will exhibit. It will reproduce the American society in Iran complete with racism and its divisions. The Azeri policies will lead to Azeris ending up as second class citizens and will promote racism against Azeris by other ethnic groups. Also most Anti-Arab propaganda by Azeris is to cover up the similarities of Azeri Turkish facial features with Arabs even though Azeris are not related to Arabs in anyway.

You're fighting on the wrong side in a world desperate to globalize. The walls between cultures are coming down and if you can't hold fast to your identity in the midst of it then I suspect your last recourse is in history books. Fighting racism is a just cause but don't use more racism to do it. The only way to defeat it is to integrate. It's not easy to do of course but the rewards are palpable. Take the U.S. for example; Americans originate from every corner of our planet. Within our communities there are subcultures that live freely, side by side with others in peace. Free to move and trade! Free to create their own communities or integrate with others but all the while, American. It is this formula that has made the United States the most able nation in the world. Why would you want to hold Iran back by advocating racial apartheid?

Alright... I took another look at your post and my comment to it and realized I broke one of my own cardinal rules. You mentioned a number of very serious problems and in my post, I didn't offer any solutions. Suggestions are part of any good discourse so the first ones need not be perfect; at least I've never held myself to such a standard. My general suggestion is for a type of federalism for Iran. What's important is that a plausable vision be created and then an agreed upon set of steps to reach such a reality.

Federalism is the theory or advocacy of federal political orders, where final authority is divided between sub-units and a center. Unlike a unitary state, sovereignty is constitutionally split between at least two territorial levels so that units at each level have final authority and can act independently of the others in some area. Citizens thus have political obligations to two authorities. The allocation of authority between the sub-unit and center may vary, typically the center has powers regarding defense and foreign policy, but sub-units may also have international roles. The sub-units may also participate in central decision-making bodies. Much recent philosophical attention is spurred by renewed political interest in federalism, coupled with empirical findings concerning the requisite and legitimate basis for stability and trust among citizens in federations. Philosophical contributions have addressed the dilemmas and opportunities facing Canada, Australia and Europe, to mention just a few areas where federal arrangements are seen as interesting solutions to accommodating differences among populations divided by ethnic or cultural cleavages yet seeking a common political order.

Now you may or may not agree with this idea but let's go through the scenario together and discuss the problems Iran would face with federalism. Obviously this is not a comprehensive list but if one were generated, a follow-up list could be created to mitigate the negative impacts of each potential problem. Take for instance, the creation of an inter-provincial cooperation committee designed specifically to coordinate inter-provincial projects.

Economic: Distribution of revenue from petroleum resources
Inter-federation trade under the Bazaar system
Representation: In the federal architecture how would ethnic groups be represented
Language maintenance vs. dominance [media and arts funding based on ethnicity]
Police and military integration to prevent corruption
Provincial favoritism [equal opportunity | affirmative action]
Provincial specific laws as opposed to federal laws [would Sharia still be a factor?]
These are just rough ideas but with them we can now start the kind of dialogue that could lead to the equal empowerment of Iran's populace so that the ethnic tensions you describe are less of an issue. But while I find no problem working out a basic solution to the problems you describe here, it is my experience that the majority of the inhabitants of Iran, consider themselves “Iranian”. Regardless of the province from which there people originate they do not see your issue as a central concern if they view it as a concern at all.

Oslonor: thanks for comments. People are free to marry anybody they want. But here We are dealing with a fascist regime in Tehran who uses the state to carry out racial policies. I think you are on the wrong side if you are against nazism. You can globalize as much as you want, but Persians will globalize under Persian cultural social context.

This is a debate between an Azeri and a Persian. Azeri wants to prove that Perisans look like Azeris and do not looke like Europeans. Then Azeri immediately go to his agenda about "Aryanization of Azeri Turks" and saying that he wants to marry a white Persian.

Azeri: The ancient Persians weren't blond Germans. This myth is propogated by white supremacists who want to believe that the creators of civilization; Greeks, Mesopotomians and Persians, were blond blued eyed noble White invaders, who over generations of interbreeding with "lesser" natives, lost their genetic purity.

Persian: Why should we care either way? Whether original persians were blue eyed blondes or sassy brunettes? Who cares what they looked like?

Azeri: cause I'm tired of all these stupid fukkin Persians who look up to the White race and white culture.

Europe became powerful because of an accident of political circumstance and geography. Europe's rise is not a testament to the inferiority of our people's race and culture. We should be proud. Persian women should NOT die their hair blond.

We come form a strong culture. Wherever Persians go in the world, they/we do well. Iran's economy under the Shah was the fastest growing in the world, at the same rate at Japan's at the time.

We are strong, and I don't like Persians selling themselves short because of false ideas about culture.

Persian: Looking up to the "white race"? Iranians are white, you genius. Where have you been all this time? Poshteh kooh?

No Iranians are not germans, but some germans may be iranians. The Aryan Migration Theory states that the Aryan tribes originated in Siberia. Around 7000 BCE they suddenly migrated. A small branch to northern europe (ancestors of the vikings) and another small branch to India, and the main group into the iranian plateu. The Persian tribe settled in the south (near Shiraz [Persepolis]) and the Median tribe settled in the north ( near Hamedan and Shush [Ectabana and Susa]). So in fact, we are racially related to the norse

Azeri: You know what I mean by "white race", I mean people with extremely white skin and brown or blond hair who are from Europe. I am using the stereotypical definition of white, not the anthropological definition.

I'm tired of Iranians thinking that 'Whites' are superior. Iranians are the most Aryan people on Earth. The original Aryans were not blond, blue haired Germans. They had light skin and dark hair, and in the sun, they tanned to a dark colour, like most modern day Iranians.

Azeri: I'll get myself a beautiful, big-breasted, soft-skinned Iranian girl to raise my children strong.

Persian: First of all, no one can know for sure what people looked like thousands of years ago. Unlike skeleton, hair and skin do not last for thousands of years. Anyone who says original Iranians had black hair with blue eyes, or blonde hair with green eyes, or red hair with brown eyes, or black hair with light skin is lying. The truth is that some of them were blonde, some of them were brunette, some had red hair, some had light skin, some had dark skin, some had blue eyes, some green, others brown and black. There are tons of Iranians right now who have light hair (especially amongst tribal people it is very common). My mom is a natural blonde (or was until she started to go gray). Most of my cousins have light hair and light eyes. I have black hair with blue eyes. Most Iranians have dark hair and dark eyes with light skin. But what does any of this prove? That they are superior or that they are inferior? You say you are tired of Iranians who think Europeans are superior and then you get to hair colour. Anyone thinks Europeans are superior because of hair colour is a dumb ass.
Re: does anyone know donkey language?
From: South Azerbaijan
Date: 22 Apr 1999
Time: 19:35:42
Remote Name: 153.37.239.180

Comments

For the post with out name:

What is goingon you Persian jack ass are you unhappy. You Persian loser proposed a question and I responded by the way you are speaking Farabi (Farsi-Arabi) language. I don't speak you subhuman language, I am Azerbaijani Turk from Qazvin. You M. F. Persians insulting to my South Azerbaijani nation, you better except response basterd. Remember the old days passed, we South Azerbaijanis used respect you Persian, now it is just too much, it is about the time we sat you jerks in your place where belong. Over half of Iran Poplulation is South Azerbaijanis Turk, we are asking you Persians just get the fuck out out of our life before any situation like Yugoslavia happen. Remember any South Azerbaijani Turk die in the Persian hand, we will kill ten of you Persians, don't ever forget it. Already you Persians started to treatning Azerbaijani Turks in Tehran. This is just beginning of Genocide you all planing for the future on South Azerbaijanis Turks. Just recently the slogans written on walls in Tehran and slogans says "dead to Turks". You see these information won't be reported by Keyhan or Et'telaat news paper. You better believe in what I am saying. Big time is coming up baba, it is about time we South Azerbaijanis clear our case with you Persian Aryan Chauvinist Skin heads. I can't wait take the revenge of my South Azerbaijanis nations from you loser Persians. Now you go ahead call to the half of Iran population "Turk Khar". But remember when the right soon comes we will make you Persians eat your own shit. Unfortuntly, some good Persians will burn for sake of ugly Persians. But unfortuntly, that is life. We have lost a lot, we lost our language, culture, Music, leaders, country and finally our identity. All that happened because of you Persians, but soon or later we will make sure you Persians pay very very high price for all that. See you all in promiss land, hope you Persian losers have some balls to face with us (South Azerbijanis Turks).

May God Bless South Azerbaijan

Iranians aren't Arabs....
One thing that many Americans (and Germans too as well[1]) find confusing is that Iran is not an Arab country. Mainstream publications have had to offer corrections for decades after mistakenly including Iran in a list of Arab nations or terming it an Arab nation. Here is the ethnic break-down in Iran: Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%.

The two big groups to note are the Azeris and the Persians. Persians obviously are the core ethnic group and Farsi is the national language[2]. Azeris though are not an oppressed minority, and I have read that they are over-represented in the power elite. Azeris are a Turkic group and their language is very close to the Turkish of Turkey proper, the main difference is that they are Shia rather than Sunni Muslims. Ethnic affiliations are to some extent fluid between such close groups like the Azeris, Turkomans and Turks, and even with more distant ones like Persians[3].

Persians often take great umbrage at being confused with Arabs. Authors like Robert Kaplan and V.S. Naipul have documented the Persian antipathy toward the Arabs, all the while espousing the Arab religion enthusiastically. It is rather understandable for reasons of history, geography and religion why Iran is bracketed into the Arab world in the minds of many.

But back to specific issues of language: Iran uses a modified Arabic script. If there was one thing that is practically possible in distancing and differentiating Iranians from Arabs, is the option of replacing Arabic script with a Roman alphabet. Tajikstan, which uses a form of Persian (Dari) as its national language has done just that[4], and Turkey's conversion to the Roman alphabet surely helped to distance their identity in the mind of Westerners from that of their former Arab subjects.

So my prediction, within two generations Iran will switch to a Roman alphabet. In fact, I would not be surprised if many non-Arab Muslim peoples switched to a Roman alphabet. Additionally the various peoples of the Indian subcontinent also might switch at some time in the future, something not difficult for certain groups who have low levels of literacy in any case.

fn1. Recently a German acquaintance introduced me to a friend (from Germany) who thought I was "Arabic," since I looked a bit (very vaguely I assume) like an Iranian friend of theirs.

fn2. Between the fall of the Sassanids around 650 and the rise of the Pahlavis in the 1920s native stock Persian speakers were never very militarily prominent. Persia was mostly ruled by Arabs, Mongols and Turkic groups.

fn3. Basically, I'm trying to say that post-French Revolution Western concepts of "nation" and "ethnic group" have less salience in this area of the world, as we learned in Afghanistan. And before Zack Latif chimes in-yes, the big chasm is between agriculturalist and nomad.

fn4. More accurately, they went from Arabic to Cyrillic to Roman.
GNXP.COM

GNXP comment
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Iranians are in fact genetically similar to Arabs. Iranians are a Semitic people. The irony is that Iran hates Israel. There is a published article in Nature Reviews that shows Arabs and Iranians (Persians-no such people really exist-Persia ended) are genetically similar. Iranians dont even have the protoEuropean gene markers which are present in all European populations and Indians. The paper pointed out that there are varying degrees of the marker. Basques had about 90%, Greeks had about 49%, Punjabis (North Indians) had about 65%, Lebanese and Iranians showed a similar distribution of 0% however they clustered together within Arab/African markers. Iranians mistakenly claim to be Aryans to curry favour with Europeans. Europeans themselves realized Aryans are people of India and spread towards Europe. It appears that Indians settled parts of Iran or their culture was transposed on Iran and from there Iran believes itself to be Aryan. I am wondering how Iranians feel about the genetics paper stating they are actually Arab.
It is humurous that Iranians 'hate' Arabs and Jews yet they are genetic cousins......if not brother.
Arya | Email | Homepage | 11.20.04 - 7:58 am | #

ARYANA IS PRESENT DAY IRAN AND AFGHANISTAN

By Dr. Ariazad
The lands of Iran and Afghanistan are as complex as are its people. About 200 years ago, Afghanistan became an independent nation under Ahmad Shah Durani. Iran and Afghanistan are nations that have analgous historical relationship to each other. It is amazing that some writer still debate Afghan-Iranian identity and their histories. I have spent most of my life researching the Afghan-Iranian relationship, and as a result, my research revealed that their ancestral roots were the Aryans. Furthermore, to assess unaware readers understand the relationship better, I have provided the fallowing analogy of nations that are encapsulated in a similar circumstance relevant to the Iranians and Afghans; they are England and Scotland, Germany and Austria, North Korea and South Korea, Bella Russia and Russia, Pakistan and Bangladesh with India, Sicily and Sardinia with Italy, Montenegro and Kosova with Albania, all these people share a common history and culture but hold their affinity to their territorial states.

Historically, for thousands of years, Afghanistan and Iran have fallen under different groups of people. The reason for this was because both of the countries did not exist as separate nations, but was merely a geographical location on earth that people sought to prosper in. Archaeologist indicate that the first people who came to these parts of the planet where called the Aryans. They migrated from the Russian-Caucus via the Khorasan passage, a region between Northeastern Iran and western Afghanistan, approximately between the modern cities of Mashed and Balkh. Aryans spread thorough these lands and called themselfs by the cities they established. Medes, Sodganas, Bactrians, Fars etc. They spoke the same language but of different dialects. This ancient language was preserved by an Aryan priest named Zoroaster in Persian (Zardasht) in a secret book called Avesta. Modern Afghan and Iranian Persian/Farsi, Pashto, Kurdish, Baluchi all are derivatives of this language. The Persian language had three stages; Old Persian spoken by the Achmianid Dynasty, Middle Persian spoken by the Sassanian Dynasty, Modern Persian that derived from Pahlavi in Khorasan is called Dari today. Both the Iranians and Afghans share this modern Farsi language. The confusion that Iranian speak Farsi Persian and Afghans speak Dari Persian is analogously as false as to say American speak American and the British speak English, this is also true for the Australians. The truth is both Afghans and Iranians speak the same language, and I will point out where the confusion is dormant. As indicated previously the Aryans established the city called Fars approximately where modern day Isfahan is located. Here, the Aryans became politically strong establishing commerce and trade. Soon their influence reached across Aryana (Afghanistan-Iran). They became known as the Achaemenids Dynasty and because of their wealth, political
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:15 am | #

ARYANA IS PRESENT DAY IRAN AND AFGHANISTAN

By Dr. Ariazad
Archaeologist indicate that the first people who came to these parts of the planet where called the Aryans. They migrated from the Russian-Caucus via the Khorasan passage, a region between Northeastern Iran and western Afghanistan, approximately between the modern cities of Mashed and Balkh. Aryans spread thorough these lands and called themselfs by the cities they established. Medes, Sodganas, Bactrians, Fars etc. They spoke the same language but of different dialects. This ancient language was preserved by an Aryan priest named Zoroaster in Persian (Zardasht) in a secret book called Avesta. Modern Afghan and Iranian Persian/Farsi, Pashto, Kurdish, Baluchi all are derivatives of this language. The Persian language had three stages; Old Persian spoken by the Achmianid Dynasty, Middle Persian spoken by the Sassanian Dynasty, Modern Persian that derived from Pahlavi in Khorasan is called Dari today. Both the Iranians and Afghans share this modern Farsi language. The confusion that Iranian speak Farsi Persian and Afghans speak Dari Persian is analogously as false as to say American speak American and the British speak English, this is also true for the Australians. The truth is both Afghans and Iranians speak the same language, and I will point out where the confusion is dormant. As indicated previously the Aryans established the city called Fars approximately where modern day Isfahan is located. Here, the Aryans became politically strong establishing commerce and trade. Soon their influence reached across Aryana (Afghanistan-Iran). They became known as the Achaemenids Dynasty and because of their wealth, political structure they organized a powerful military system attracting people from all over Aryana. Darius The Great extended this influence as far as China and Northern Greece. Getting back to the main idea, the Greeks had a city state system and when a city ruled over a land mass that land mass was named after that city. Much like if you would call America Washington D.C. The Achaemenids never considered Aryana to be called after their city Fars. Like in modern day politics Fars was a capital to the land it dominated, it was a region where power was centralized. The Greeks also pronounced Fars as Persia and that is what the western world has referred to this land as. Later, the borrowed Greek culture by the Romans and from them the British Empire to Modern day United States has enhanced its use of the word thorough the succession of western civilizations. To put it in a nutshell Farsi means Persia and visa-versa. As indicated before the Persian language went through three stages. The first stage was the Achaemenid-Persians whom I briefly introduced, the second and the third stage will produce our final thoughts on this subject. The second stage of the Persian language and culture came after the fall of the Achaemenid Dynasty by Alexander the Great. Here, Greek culture and language
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:17 am | #

ARYANA IS PRESENT DAY IRAN AND AFGHANISTAN

By Dr. Ariazad
Here, Greek culture and language influenced the Persian language receiving many Greek loan words. After the death of Alexander, Aryana was Hellenized or (Greekized). Many factions tried to take control of this land. The land had split under three Greco-Perso ruling powers; the Selecuids, the Parthnians and the Bactrians. The Parthnians were unique in that even though they had Greek influences they held national pride in old Achaemenid traditions, in hope to rebound anther empire from Aryana. The Parthnians were successful later calling themselves the Sassianian Empire. Here is where Middle Persian/Farsi took stage. During the third stage when the Arabs arrived, they called the language Pahlavi. This was because they took control of Arayna's central power territory, the state of Khorasan also known as (Parthia). The Arabs orally pronounced Parthia as Pahlavi which is commonly used and mis-used by writers today. Parthia was the Greco-Roman pronunciation. The last stage is the invention of modern Persian/Farsi called Dari, which became the language of the kings royal courts. The Arabs had brought Persian/Farsi to a near extinction when poets concealed nationalism amongst Aryans to revive their language and culture from total Arabization. One man in particular whom brought a sense of dignity to the demoralized Aryans was Frowdosi Tossi of Khorasan. He reinvented Persian/Farsi by using Arabic letters writing a glories story about the ancient kingdoms of Aryana. This intern brought a sense of unity and nationalism revolutionizing Persian/Farsi into what is Dari-Persian/Farsi. Dari is the modern literal Persian/Farsi and has derived into several dialects. Like English, we could hear many variations from different regions. Some are close and others sound distinct. For example when you hear Australian or Jamaican you might not understand it if your from London, but it is still a literal English language. Farsi has the same properties, if your from Tehran and I am from Kabul there is a distinction in our language, but it is still literally Farsi. Persian/Farsi speaking region will have loan words from a geographically close neighboring nation. Languages like Pashto, Kurdish and Baluchi are close to Persian/Farsi but have become distinct Aryana languages of their own. These languages were all one language with Persian/Farsi during the arrival of the Aryans, but was less influenced by Persian/Farsi during its development phase in Aryana and took its own course. Theory suggests that this was because of its geographical remoteness in Aryana. In closing Dari is the new third stage of Persian/Farsi used today. When an Afghan says he is speaking Farsi he is one hundred percent correct, he is speaking Afghani-Farsi dialect and an Iranian is speaking his or her dialect, they all speak Dari-Farsi/Persian dialects. One more thing, the shah of Iran in the early 1900’s summonsed the Europeans to stop ref
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:20 am | #

ARYANA IS PRESENT DAY IRAN AND AFGHANISTAN

By Dr. Ariazad
One more thing, the shah of Iran in the early 1900’s summonsed the Europeans to stop referring to it as Persia and call it by its original name “Elm- A – Aryan”, which means in English “Land Of The Aryans”.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 11.24.04 - 12:22 am | #

HI,(Selamlar) this is the first message of mine at this forum. I am an Azerabiajni Turk from the country now called Persia. and Azerbaijani turks were always a subject here. I have seen many Persians and even Turkmen friends callin Azerbaijanies as persians. To solev this question fro myself I donated my genes to the Genographic project condacted by National geography and the results was that I have M17(Ra1) marker. Proving that my family are related to Turkmens,Kirkizs, and Kazaks from central Asia, the butiful grasslands of Scytians, Huns and Turks. This was a clear answer fro me about the Azerbaijani Turks and their blood line. This marker is almost zero between Persians and olny could be founf between east persians in khorasan, who could be assimilated turks to persian culture. I really fill happy to have a prove at least for myself that there are still Turkish blood in Azerbaijan the land of Oguz tribes. I love all cultures and respect them even I am fluent in Persian.But francly I hate that somebody else calls me something which I am not really.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7059&PN=1&TPN=1

Oslonor: Azeri Turks are not related to Aryan migration. All sources confirm that.

An Old Norwegian Saga relating Scandinavians with Persians.

According to Ynglinga Saga, many hundreds of years after the Aesir had settled among the Vanir, Norse nobles continued to remember their venerable eastern ancestry, which was traceable to Godheim and the Great Swithiod. These lands were legendary and still held an aura of mystique and wonderment for later Norsemen, many centuries after they had migrated westward.

"To Saeming Earl Hakon the Great reckoned back his pedigree. This Swithiod they called Mannheim (literally: The home of men), but the Great Swithiod (Greater Scythia) they called Godheim; and of Godheim great wonders and novelties were related".255

It would appear that the descendants of Odin and the initial wave of immigrants lost contact with Godheim (literally “the home of the gods”) in the ancestral motherland, and after having lived a long time in Europe set out in search of it, having previously sworn that they would succeed in this mission. It was in Turkland (ie; Central Asia) that the Norseman Swegde chanced upon the very people he had been searching for. Having rediscovered Godheim and the Great Svithiod he apparently established lasting contact with the inhabitants of the region.
"Swegde took the kingdom after his father, and he made a solemn vow to seek Godheim and Odin. He went with twelve men through the world, and came to Turkland, and the Great Svithiod, where he found many of his connections".256

Earl Hakon the Great was not the only high-born one to look eastward. In the Old Norse tale Gylfaginning,257 the Swedish king Gylfi is said to have undertaken an arduous journey to Asgard (an Icelandic folk remembrance of the Persian regional governmental centre of Asagarta {sandwiched between Parthia and Medea}), where he met in consultation with the wizard-gods, who, the Christian Snorri tells us, “deceived him” with their tales of the world’s origins and its coming end. There the king learned many other things that proved to be the basis for Norse pagan beliefs. As you have already seen, the epic of Ragnarok was probably one such teaching. Here Snorri’s pen appears to have faithfully recorded Gylfi’s unforgettable adventure, preserving for us profound Norse remembrances of the divine wizards of Asia Minor.
Additional relevant details are found noted in a 13th Century Icelandic tract, which allow us to specifically identify the wizards as Magi, for it was said that - “Magon reigned over parts of the Great Svithiod, but Madia over Kylfingaland, which we call Gardariki (Rus’)”.258 This account intimates that the Svithiod was ruled by a Magus, with the best part of the Medes, the original tribe of the Magi, serving as temporal lords over ancient Russia, having left Iran at some point in ages past.

are Americans white ???????
or are there White Americans ??????
Similarly there are White Iranians !!!!!!
Too tough for you to understand ?????

Iran is not a single-ethnic group nation, it consists of different ethnicities of whom a significant minority is still white.

Both Afgan and Iran were attacked subsequently by the Turks, Arabs, Huns, Scythians/Saka (an indo-european tribe), and other medieval tribes but since a tribal system was/is maintained intermixture was generally to the minimum and people generally confined themselves to their tribes & regions. Thus till today you can see ethnicities in those lands changing with the regions.

"There are more and more ridiculous claims by African/Negroes about the racial origin of people throughout the world. THe level of ignorance among black Americans simply amazes me to go and suggest all this nonsense about Indians, Persians etc...being African!!!!!"
It's not so much ignorance; it's more a case of "I don't like who I am, so I'm just going to spread myself around to other people so I can feel better." A very common phenomenon among US minorities, I might add.

"First and foremost, African Negroes played ABSOLUTELY NO PART in the history and culture of Asia (or Egypt for that matter)."

Egypt may have been a "joint effort", if you will, as there are skeletal remains from ancient Egypt with clearly Negroid features, and upper Egypt is known to have been significantly Negroid. What role the Negroes played in Egypt is still up in the air; however, the evidence suggests that Egypt was predominantly a Mediterranean (as in race) civilization. My own opinion is that a people akin to the Minoans had something to do with it, and that these Minoans were of the Atlanto-Mediterranean racial type that is common today in Crete, the Aegean, the Balkans, and northern Italy.

"By around 10 000 years ago, the racial mixture of the copper-skinned so-called Irano-Afghan race (a Mediterranean race somewhat related to southern Italians, Greeks, dark Iberians etc...)...."

There isn't much relation between Irano Afghans and these other groups. I-A's are a very old Middle-Eastern stock that is insignificant west of the Caucasus. Further, Greeks are quite different from southern Italians and Spaniards; mainland Greece (racially) is more a part of the Central European sphere; it is predominantly Alpine and Dinaric. On Crete exists the second-tallest people in Europe--a clan called "Sphakiotes"--which might be an ancient Upper-Paleolithic remnant similar to the Ghegs of Albania and Montenegro. Also, in Greece, the dominant Med. strain is the taller, more-robust Atlanto-Mediterranean and not the more-gracile variety one encounters west. Greeks are closest genetically, I believe, to West-Balkan groups, especially Albanians.

"1)the Nordic race, clearly illustrated on glazed brick art work from the palace of Shush in southern Iran depicting blond haired, blue or green eyed Achamenid soldiers as well as ancient descriptions of Sarmatian and Scythians as a blond, tall and ruddy skinned race. Nordics are Mesocephalic, about 6 feet tall with blond or red hair and blue or blue/grey eyes"

True Nordics are tall, pink skinned, yellow haired, very dolichocephalic, and have steel-blue eyes. I have yet to see an Iranian who fits this description (and I've seen thousands of Iranians in my lifetime). Also, hair/eye blondism occurs in Mediterranean and Alpine groups as well, so it alone can't be used to determine "Nordic" ancestry.

"2) Armenoid or Pamir/Ferghanna type constituting a native physical type originally from the Caucasus that migrated to Central Asia some 4500-5000 years ago and became mixed with the Nordic Aryans around 4000 years ago during their descent into Central Asia and Iran. These people have fair skin but black hair and brown or hazel eyes, stand about 5'9" in height and have bracycephalic skulls, similar to the Alpine and Dinaric types of Central and Balkanic Europe."

Armenoids are simply a stable blend of Irano-Afghans and Alpines. They are an example of the principle of Dinaricization: wherever a broad-headed group mingles with a dolichocephalic group (in the correct proportions) the offspring will be born with a very broad head, occipital flattening, a convex nose, and generally an upside-down-triangle-shaped head. On that note, the Dinarics proper are a blend of Alpine and Atlanto-Mediterranean, and Alpine-Nordic crosses are called "Norics." Also, an Armenoid somewhere in the Middle-East doesn't necessarily have ancestry from the Caucasus; he could just as easily have formed locally, given what I said above.

I would like to add that nobody knows, as of yet, what the race of the Indo-Europeans was, or even if there were true Indo-Euopean invasions for that matter. It is likely that there weren't invasions at all, at least as most people like to think of them, and that most ethnicities are the result of certain races radiating from their centers of origin and overlapping with each other. It is my personal opinion that "Indo-European" languages are nothing more than the result of Alpines radiating out from above the Black Sea and mingling with other groups.

Most romantic invasion/migration theories are simply made up to suite the agendas of their respective theorists. Nazis wanted to make the German people feel they were important; Afrocentrists are trying to raise their low self-esteem that's the result of a history of non-achievement and being subjugated by others; and, with all due respect, Iranians with their "Aryan heritage" are just trying to become white (even turning against their own darker countrymen to do so) in a world that will probably never view them as such--sad.

"To conclude, one cannot simply classify the entire Iranian nation in one single race. I am white, my mother has red hair and my brother in law is Dravidian looking. My paternal grandfather had copper complexion with brown eyes while my maternal grandfather had light brown hair and green eyes (and looked German!). There are Iranians who can't be told apart from northern Europeans like Germans and British while others can easily pass as Italian/Spanish, Oriental or even Indian (East Indian).Genes however never disapear (Havey-Weinberg law) and regardless, always resurface in teh living population after one or more generations."

Don't kidd yourself; anyone with good intelligence can spot a typical Iranian--even a "blonde" one--in a crowd. I know I can. I've caught Persians (and Arabs too) trying to pass themselves off as southern Europeans before. There's this Italian guy at my work who looks so-NOT Iranian (he just has black hair), yet I've seen Persians actually come up and ask him if he was Iranian!@*!!??? You should have seen the looks on peoples' faces! I'm Greek, and I have many times overheard Iranians tell people things like "oh, Iranians are similar to Greeks....", "we're a lot like Greeks....", etc. That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and I (and probably most Greeks) find that very offensive. Of course, when mistaken for an Arab (which happens a lot) my Iranian friends (sorry guys if you're reading this, but you know it's true) will throw a fit. "I'M FROM IRAN" they scream (as if an American knows the difference anyway), "I'M WHITE!!!!", yada yada yada.

"In a racial sense, Iranians can be Mediterranean, European (White), Australoid or Dravidian, or Mongoloid/Oriental. Skin color ranges from ruddy white to brown and black. Eyes range from blue to green, grey and brown. Height ranges from 5'4 to 6'4. Hair ranges frmo platinum and ash blond to light brown, dark brown, black with reddish hues or black with bluish hues."

You can draw these distinctions, but again, your average American on the street can spot an Iranian of any race from a mile away. You seem a lot like most Iranians I know: you want to be white so bad that you end up a racist (even against your own people), and you delude yourself into thinking you look just like any other European--trust me, you don't, and all the plastic surgery, hair dye, and European clothing I see in the Iranian community here fools nobody (except yourselves). I can honestly say that the most racist people I know are Iranians, and it's very sad to see astonishingly racist behavior from people who are treated like dogs (and definitely considered non-white) in Europe and the US. If you are a racist (as I suspect you are) you should (1) be ashamed of yourself and (2) realize that most won't consider you white in a million years. Iranians are a beautiful, unique blend of ethnicities, and you should be proud of this, rather than play it down and make divisions in order to convince yourselfe that you are white.

Oslonor Comments: There are many Persians who do not fit into Azeri-Iranian stereotype. Just check my blog and compare Azeris with Persians.