Anynomous
You're a moron. Us Persians don't need white people like you telling us who we are. We KNOW who we are. We don't WANT to be white. Europeans are NOT Aryan. You never were, and you never will be. Aryans today are Persian, Afghan, Indian, And Pakistani. And WE ARE NOT WHITE. AND WE ARE PROUD. The only racist person I see here is you, NOT HOLLYWOOD. You seem so ashamed of the fact that your wife is not white, that you will try anything in your power to get her to be white. NEWSFLASH: The myth that Germans are Aryan has been proven false COUNTLESS times. There is NO Indo-European race. The Aryan race was INDO-IRANIAN. Persians and Iranians don't like Europeans, we don't care about Europeans, our culture is completely different than Europeans. WE ARE NOT LIKE YOU. GIVE IT A REST. YES, PERSIANS DO LOOK VASTLY DIFFERENT. Even Dariush, the Shah of Iran had bushy, curly, black hair, and light brown skin, with a hooked nose. You're a damn idiot. ARYANS ARE NOT EUROPEAN, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR STUPID SKULL. When will white people stop trying to be Iranian? And I hope you know that those pictures you posted are mostly of Iranian girls who have had nose jobs, tatooted their eyebrows, and dyed their hair. It's very popular to do those things in Iran, if you knew anything about Iran, you would know that. Get a life. It's very easy to go through a bunch of pictures of a group of people and pick out 5 that look "white" and then post them and come to a conclusion. you're an idiot. Indo-European is a lie. A lot of Iranians have Arab blood. Arabs and Iranians have been in contact with eachother for thousands of years, it's natural. Hhahahah I can't believe you're basing your facts on what a few stupid German philosophers believed in the 19th century. YOU'RE BASING YOUR FACTS ON NAZISM. I'm sorry to tell you, but you're quite late. It has already been proved that the links that were made between Germans and Iranians were false. Germans are not Aryan in any way. If an Iranian ever tells you that he or she is white, it is because they are ashamed of themselves because people like you make it a bad thing for dark people in the world to be dark-skinned and dark-haired. Same reason why so many blacks in the States claim to have "Native" blood. Grow up and realize that Europeans are not Aryan. HITLER WAS WRONG, THE NAZIS WERE WRONG, AND YOU ARE WRONG TOO.
Oslonor: You are an Azeri Turk and you make up all this to be able to hide yourself behind the label of Persian. Sorry those pictures are the picutres of live Persians. Azeris look different from Persians.
Oslonor: Actually I am not Iranian. Those DNA tests you are talking about are not Y chromosome tests. They are mtDNA tests. Those tests can prove the Polish have the same genes as Africans in Congo or African Americans are Scandinavians!!! I think you should look carefully at the pictures I have posted on my blog. You are talking about Azeris who are a majority in Iran and I agree with you about that. And there is no Iranian race. You have to be specific which ethnic group you talk about. I can say the same about Americans. Americans are white or black does not make any sense.
Oslonor:Persians were a minority in ancient times. And they are a minority now.Yes. check on Tocharian for Aryans in China. http://www.oxuscom.com/eyawtkat.htm
Ironically, it's the non-whites who are the most "Wannabe Nordic." Many Mexicans that I know never acknowledge their American Indian and African ancestry, preferring to liken themselves to whites of Med. decent (Italians being to most popular). In reality, many of them are indistinguishable from Phillipinos.
Then there are the Mid. Easterners, a few of whom I've caught impersonating Greek people! Again, many play down the non-white part of of their heritage in favor of the white one. "we're like Armenians, Greeks, Turks, ..." is what I overheard an Iranian man say the other day. Not that I'm a nazi or anything, but I found that remark insulting, since, quite frankly, I see little resemblance between Greeks and Persians. Right by my house, there is a "Greek" restaurant with all the trimmings: souvlaki, spanakopita, gyros, tiropita, etc. Notis Sphakianakis, along with other Greek singers, is constantly playing in the background; yet, the owners are obviously not Greek, and don't seem to mind being mistaken as such. Maybe I'm just overeacting, but it's rather annoying.
This obsession even affects people who could never pass for caucasian in any way, shape, or form. On numerous occasions, I've seen classy, successful, Asian women together with the scummiest white trash. On seeing this, I can't help but wonder, "would she ever go out with an Asian man who lived in a trailor park?" Probably not, unless of course, he had blond hair and blue eyes.
Oslonor: Yes. Iranian Azeri Turks are not in anyway related to Greeks.
Who do you think are? I know all people are from one origin, and adopted with enviornment, I don't how white race borned, I think actually we have not races we have just people in different looking and colour in some groups, for example germans are different from italian, we can't say german are pure and italian mixed there is no pure meaning , we have two different group, and just there characters show which is whiter or more pleasent, people can mix and generate even some more beautiful race (group of people in a moment), and change over time, its the way aryan borned, they were sometimes like monkeys like all other people and then each grouped changed, and this story still continued, But if you speak about history of nations, it has no relation to their current or past race, cause race is dynamic and history too, but till people keep a tradition they counted belonging two a ancient group, this posture of European is rediculose if they think they are an specefic or pure people, do they know where is their origin,also they can't claim they all have anythink superior or even beautiful, its dynamic and define in moments, also the history and envirnment effects people life and have no relation to race, For example a mixed people of aryan and mungols (Turks) can be even more beautiful or talented, you can't isolate yourself, you borned from these peoples and every moment new races are borned, your white colour is the result of Europe condition and in such conditions it can be continued, and have no relation to you, even nobody can say fair white is an interesting colour than black, I am white but not much fair and a little golden, I think this colour is more interesting, I am Iranian, you can think Iranian pure aryan or mixed people, but if you know Iranian, they have one of the most beautiful people that you can't find anywhere, for another example swedish are beautiful people, Italian too, you think they are pure? not , maybe you don't know Aryan, they can be mix of Aryan and other people , call them nordic, but again good
Dienekes
Dear Dienekes
I have read a lot of material out there suggesting that blonde-haired blue-eyed aryans (indo-iranians) suddenly dropped down from northern Europe or central Asia to settle Iran and India. Later they mixed with Semitic peoples and that is why Iranians today have a dark cmplexion. This is partially based on Hitler and De Gobineau's racist philosophy and I find no evidence for this. Even though, linguistically Iranians share a few words with European language this is not necessarilly indictive of a common lineage (Arabs in Lebanon speak Arabic but are genetically different from Saudi Arabians). It is known that in the early 1900's the British took over the oil industry in Iran, stealing oil and introducing some new words (in Farsi the words for energy and bad are the same as the English words). It should also be noted that the word Aryan was first found in Iran. First in the Zoroastrian Avesta and later on a inscription made by Darius. Climotolgy points to a gradual warming of the world, not cooling, about 15-10 thousand years ago. This would have made it more likely for the Aryans to have developed in a southern area and migrated north as before the warming central Asia was covered by ice. Increased rainfall in Iran also meant that the central salt deserts were once lakes. Here is and interesting excerpt from Zoroastrian mythology pointing to this "...In the second phase of the creation of the world, Ahura Mazda created the waters, and the waters flowed towards Farakhekrat Sea which covers one third of the world from the southern outskirts of Alborz." This could have been where the Aryan/ IndoIranian peoples first started and later migrated out as the lake dried up. Let us not forget that in the city of Susa up to 12 thousand years ago, while Central Asia was covered by ice, we have discovered pottery with advanced paintings. Now it is highly unlikely that a group of blonde-haired, blue-eyed peoples suddenly invaded and destroyed the local culture. Even if they did they would have been sunburnt bad and would have to rapidly adapt from cold to hot climates. In reality it is more likely that the aryans where tan skinned and dark eyed/haired (without any relation to Hitlers "supreme" race). I myself have green eyes and this already freaks a lot of people out considering I'm 100% Iranian. But in short the IndoIranian Aryans emerged from central Iran and migrated either across the Iranian plateau or into India where they mixed with Dravidians.
Posted by: Iranian at May 3, 2004 06:07 PMRouz
Quote from: rouz on Today at 12:19:44 PM Rouz: Iranian leadership is, like many other nations, based on money (power), connections and ones adaptability to the politicall arena. Unfortunately I fail to see the Azeri connection that you are claiming and what it has to do with the topics in your blogs and forum where you present fantasies about diffrent races.
Its called ARYANSEMITEPRIDE: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ARYANSEMITEPRIDE/ Greetings. Salaams. As Chapter 17 of WESTERN CIVILIZATION THROUGH MUSLIM EYES by Sayid Mujtaba Rukni Musawi Lari:"The theory of Apartheid,based on the utterances of some innovating thinker ("Philosopher") denies racial equality. Its promoters want "the superior race" to run the World while, "weaker inferior races" serve them....No pure race exists. No scientific evidence proves the race theory definately. An "Aryan" race is a myth. History does not relate the actuality of a race which called itself "ARYAN".The "Aryan" family of languages is a fact (see History of religion page 219). National Socialism's rise was part cause of World War II. Hitler's Germany's ideology was "One race shall rule"-of course the "German Nordics"_who were to be found a strong centre (sic, center) of Government in mid-Europe. Its brief brutal regime, by means of Congresses at Nuremberg and elsewhere , and fanatic racial propaganda, drew the loyalty of German nationals who made great, if illusory, profit from their dominance of the neighboring lands." Men have oppressed men since the beginning of time, women have been oppressed by a male dominated world for far too long, now whilke seeking justice, women have sought to be feminsists who seek to wipe out the need for men and promote lesbianism, males who are left to marry late in life and without a companion seek the Gay route-this is our society today. No one is interested in addressing the nation's number one pollutant: racism. No one seems to be interested in addressing Patroitic blindness for the excessive abuse of the law and human rights by the CIA and US government. The US government hunts Aryan Groups who ar not racist but seek pride in itself and its heritage. Imam Khomeini(RA) even said that "nothing is wrong with patroitism" and pride in one's heritage but racism and oppressing ort manipulating the laws, lies about weapons of mass deception, abusing the Geneva Convention by persecuting POWs is wrong Mr. BUSH and Mr. Tony puddle...
Oslonor: I think you misunderstand what Nordic means. You should read my blog on Nordic. Nordic does not mean blond hair. It only defines the dimensions of the skull. According to that, then Persians are nordic. And the history you are describing is mostly imaginary history. But I agree with you that Azeris originate from Turanid-Turks. And they have different racial characteristics from Persians. Persians want to be portrayed as Persians and not as Turks or Arabs. That is what this blog is about. Otherwise Persians have very good relation with all central Asian and Anatolian Turks and Azeri Turks. Here is the definition of Nordic-Iranian: The Nordic-Iranian type D1 lies between Anglo-Saxon and Keltic area norms, and D2 is the earlier pre-Bronze Age Corded form which Coon identifies. Type D3, lighter and more hawk-nosed, is transitional to the Mediterranean type B4 and to type D4 (Iranian), which is the Proto-Iranian of Vallois, Irano-Afghan of others, and Proto-Nordic of Krogman, and which is more linear and more rugged than D3 and has a more tilted chewing plane, more nasal convexity, and deeper occiput. Type D5 approximates Coon's Danubian-Halstatt and successor Central European forms.
Are you talking about me??? First of all I am not a "white" nationalist, where did I even hint such a thing? Also, I don't claim any relationship with Finns and Hungarians. As I said I don't want to be a Caucaisan, Caucasoid, Aryan or whatever. You are the one wanting to be something that you aren't, " Can I pass for this or that, blah, blah, blah" with all your inferiority complex. I don't want to be anything else. We are what we are. I don't want to put into a dumb category, I don't want to be classified anything but a Turk, I don't seek refugee in a greater group like racialists do. You have a comprehension problem, I am just claiming I am a Turk, or I am the Turk as Seizure said. FYI, I like East Asians more than Europeans. I just don't think that we Turks are East Asians just like we are not Europeans. We are neither this nor that. Next time be careful what you are talking about. Also, Atilla was a Hun, i.e a Turk, not a Magyar. And we are claiming him, OK.
Comment Oslonor: I completely agree with what you say. The same for Persians. We do not want to be Europeans either. (Anatolian Turk was discussing with some Ashkenazi Jews. "wannabe Europeans")
i, I recently found your site while doing a search for Aryans and must say, am very impressed. Most people today like to think of Persians as being non-European looking, mostly saying they look more like me (I myself am an Arab from Lebanon) This of course, is absurd and seems to fit more into the cookie-cutter, Politically Correct, Hollywood standard of etnicity and culture. A good example of the absurdity of modern perception is the movie "Alexander", which potrayed Baktrian Roxane as an African American named Rosario Dawson. This of course is laughable. I, as a non Persian, have no qualms with you for merely stating the truth, which has been white-washed by modern Hollywood, mostly for its desire to hurt blonde haired, blue eyed types which they despise. (A good example of this is the "dumb blonde" stereotype. Since we're on the topic of Hollywood white-washing, I wanted to mention a future movie on the life of Carthagenian general Hannibal which will star Denzell Washington. As a descendent of the Phonecians (Carthagen was a Phonecian colony in north Africa, which by the way wasnt populated by blacks anyways)it deeply troubles me to think that someone had the pinhead idea to make Hannibal, who probably looked more like me (albeit a bit manlier)then a Sub-Saharan, a people who at the time werent even in North Africa, but came later with slavery in the middle ages. Anyways, those are my two cents. I wish you the best of luck and ill be sure to pass it along to my Persian friends.
Oslonor: Yes. There are a few Azeris who are mixed with Persians in Tehran. But those are considered Azeris and not Persians as they look similar to Azeris. The majority of Azeris are not mixed with anybody and they are just Azeris. But for the rest of Iran that different ethnic groups live in different provinces and there are no Azeris in those provinces. Persians and Kurds and Baloch and Turkoman live in their home provinces and are not related to Azeris. Azeris mainly live in Tehran and Azerbaijan in North West Iran. To see how Persians and Azeris look like please visit Persians and Hollywood
On Iranians and African Americans
Comment 1: I actually know Mr. Tehran. He is a good friend of mine from college at George Mason University in VA. His is bi-racial. His father is Iranian. I know because I have met his parents. He speaks fluent Farsi and his accent is because like many other Iraninas including myself, he was brought up in the states. Shahram and Ali are also disappointed with your choice of words. I don't know where your from, but here in Northern VA/Washington DC we don't have hate for one another. We are one country united for peace not destruction like you and Mr. Bush suggest. Comment 2:
- Kasra:
Oslonor: In New York, if you go to any wedding, there are chinese, Anglo Saxons, Blacks and hispanics. Does that mean that all these people belong to the same ethnic group. Certainly not. Same goes for your Tehran wedding. But what you say is different. You are saying there are no ethnic groups in Iran and Azeris, Gilakis and Persians and Kurds and Lors are the same people. They just speak different dialects. This is called Pan-Turkism. Pan Turkist use Persian as their primary language because that is the only way they can run Iran. These people have different origin and they are not the same people. The reason for this confusion is your experience is based in Tehran where there are a few Azeris who speak only Persian so you think they are Persians. You may have an agenda where all Iranians are a mix of Azeris but Persians, Kurds and other ethnic groups want to keep their ethnic identity and they do not want to be a half Azeri. Sorry Iran is not US and people in Iran have kept their ethnic identity for thousands of years. Lors are really LOrs and Kurds are really Kurds and Persians are really Persians. All ethnic groups want to keep their ethnic identity. Only Azeris want to destroy other ethnic groups. Most Iranians consider Azeris as an alien culture to Iran and responsible for Azeri Turk Islamic Republic.
Comments by Humit:
Non-Racism in Iran: One of the reasons that Iran is a completely non-racist society, unlike India where they have caste system or US is the structure of Iranian population. Every ethnic group lives in a separate province. Persians in South and North East and Azeris in North West. That is how every ethnic group has maintained its identity for thousands of years. The Azeri regime policies will lead to a completely racist society where people will be judged on the color of their skin and how much Persian or Azeri heritage the mixed race people will exhibit. It will reproduce the American society in Iran complete with racism and its divisions. The Azeri policies will lead to Azeris ending up as second class citizens and will promote racism against Azeris by other ethnic groups. Also most Anti-Arab propaganda by Azeris is to cover up the similarities of Azeri Turkish facial features with Arabs even though Azeris are not related to Arabs in anyway.
You're fighting on the wrong side in a world desperate to globalize. The walls between cultures are coming down and if you can't hold fast to your identity in the midst of it then I suspect your last recourse is in history books. Fighting racism is a just cause but don't use more racism to do it. The only way to defeat it is to integrate. It's not easy to do of course but the rewards are palpable. Take the U.S. for example; Americans originate from every corner of our planet. Within our communities there are subcultures that live freely, side by side with others in peace. Free to move and trade! Free to create their own communities or integrate with others but all the while, American. It is this formula that has made the United States the most able nation in the world. Why would you want to hold Iran back by advocating racial apartheid?
Alright... I took another look at your post and my comment to it and realized I broke one of my own cardinal rules. You mentioned a number of very serious problems and in my post, I didn't offer any solutions. Suggestions are part of any good discourse so the first ones need not be perfect; at least I've never held myself to such a standard. My general suggestion is for a type of federalism for Iran. What's important is that a plausable vision be created and then an agreed upon set of steps to reach such a reality.
Federalism is the theory or advocacy of federal political orders, where final authority is divided between sub-units and a center. Unlike a unitary state, sovereignty is constitutionally split between at least two territorial levels so that units at each level have final authority and can act independently of the others in some area. Citizens thus have political obligations to two authorities. The allocation of authority between the sub-unit and center may vary, typically the center has powers regarding defense and foreign policy, but sub-units may also have international roles. The sub-units may also participate in central decision-making bodies. Much recent philosophical attention is spurred by renewed political interest in federalism, coupled with empirical findings concerning the requisite and legitimate basis for stability and trust among citizens in federations. Philosophical contributions have addressed the dilemmas and opportunities facing Canada, Australia and Europe, to mention just a few areas where federal arrangements are seen as interesting solutions to accommodating differences among populations divided by ethnic or cultural cleavages yet seeking a common political order.
Now you may or may not agree with this idea but let's go through the scenario together and discuss the problems Iran would face with federalism. Obviously this is not a comprehensive list but if one were generated, a follow-up list could be created to mitigate the negative impacts of each potential problem. Take for instance, the creation of an inter-provincial cooperation committee designed specifically to coordinate inter-provincial projects.
These are just rough ideas but with them we can now start the kind of dialogue that could lead to the equal empowerment of Iran's populace so that the ethnic tensions you describe are less of an issue. But while I find no problem working out a basic solution to the problems you describe here, it is my experience that the majority of the inhabitants of Iran, consider themselves “Iranian”. Regardless of the province from which there people originate they do not see your issue as a central concern if they view it as a concern at all.
- Economic: Distribution of revenue from petroleum resources
- Inter-federation trade under the Bazaar system
- Representation: In the federal architecture how would ethnic groups be represented
- Language maintenance vs. dominance [media and arts funding based on ethnicity]
- Police and military integration to prevent corruption
- Provincial favoritism [equal opportunity | affirmative action]
- Provincial specific laws as opposed to federal laws [would Sharia still be a factor?]
Oslonor: thanks for comments. People are free to marry anybody they want. But here We are dealing with a fascist regime in Tehran who uses the state to carry out racial policies. I think you are on the wrong side if you are against nazism. You can globalize as much as you want, but Persians will globalize under Persian cultural social context.
This is a debate between an Azeri and a Persian. Azeri wants to prove that Perisans look like Azeris and do not looke like Europeans. Then Azeri immediately go to his agenda about "Aryanization of Azeri Turks" and saying that he wants to marry a white Persian.
Azeri: The ancient Persians weren't blond Germans. This myth is propogated by white supremacists who want to believe that the creators of civilization; Greeks, Mesopotomians and Persians, were blond blued eyed noble White invaders, who over generations of interbreeding with "lesser" natives, lost their genetic purity.
Persian: Why should we care either way? Whether original persians were blue eyed blondes or sassy brunettes? Who cares what they looked like?
Azeri: cause I'm tired of all these stupid fukkin Persians who look up to the White race and white culture.
Europe became powerful because of an accident of political circumstance and geography. Europe's rise is not a testament to the inferiority of our people's race and culture. We should be proud. Persian women should NOT die their hair blond.
We come form a strong culture. Wherever Persians go in the world, they/we do well. Iran's economy under the Shah was the fastest growing in the world, at the same rate at Japan's at the time.
We are strong, and I don't like Persians selling themselves short because of false ideas about culture.
Persian: Looking up to the "white race"? Iranians are white, you genius. Where have you been all this time? Poshteh kooh?
No Iranians are not germans, but some germans may be iranians. The Aryan Migration Theory states that the Aryan tribes originated in Siberia. Around 7000 BCE they suddenly migrated. A small branch to northern europe (ancestors of the vikings) and another small branch to India, and the main group into the iranian plateu. The Persian tribe settled in the south (near Shiraz [Persepolis]) and the Median tribe settled in the north ( near Hamedan and Shush [Ectabana and Susa]). So in fact, we are racially related to the norse
Azeri: You know what I mean by "white race", I mean people with extremely white skin and brown or blond hair who are from Europe. I am using the stereotypical definition of white, not the anthropological definition.
I'm tired of Iranians thinking that 'Whites' are superior. Iranians are the most Aryan people on Earth. The original Aryans were not blond, blue haired Germans. They had light skin and dark hair, and in the sun, they tanned to a dark colour, like most modern day Iranians.
Azeri: I'll get myself a beautiful, big-breasted, soft-skinned Iranian girl to raise my children strong.
Persian: First of all, no one can know for sure what people looked like thousands of years ago. Unlike skeleton, hair and skin do not last for thousands of years. Anyone who says original Iranians had black hair with blue eyes, or blonde hair with green eyes, or red hair with brown eyes, or black hair with light skin is lying. The truth is that some of them were blonde, some of them were brunette, some had red hair, some had light skin, some had dark skin, some had blue eyes, some green, others brown and black. There are tons of Iranians right now who have light hair (especially amongst tribal people it is very common). My mom is a natural blonde (or was until she started to go gray). Most of my cousins have light hair and light eyes. I have black hair with blue eyes. Most Iranians have dark hair and dark eyes with light skin. But what does any of this prove? That they are superior or that they are inferior? You say you are tired of Iranians who think Europeans are superior and then you get to hair colour. Anyone thinks Europeans are superior because of hair colour is a dumb ass.
Re: does anyone know donkey language?From: South Azerbaijan
Date: 22 Apr 1999
Time: 19:35:42
Remote Name: 153.37.239.180
Comments
For the post with out name:
What is goingon you Persian jack ass are you unhappy. You Persian loser proposed a question and I responded by the way you are speaking Farabi (Farsi-Arabi) language. I don't speak you subhuman language, I am Azerbaijani Turk from Qazvin. You M. F. Persians insulting to my South Azerbaijani nation, you better except response basterd. Remember the old days passed, we South Azerbaijanis used respect you Persian, now it is just too much, it is about the time we sat you jerks in your place where belong. Over half of Iran Poplulation is South Azerbaijanis Turk, we are asking you Persians just get the fuck out out of our life before any situation like Yugoslavia happen. Remember any South Azerbaijani Turk die in the Persian hand, we will kill ten of you Persians, don't ever forget it. Already you Persians started to treatning Azerbaijani Turks in Tehran. This is just beginning of Genocide you all planing for the future on South Azerbaijanis Turks. Just recently the slogans written on walls in Tehran and slogans says "dead to Turks". You see these information won't be reported by Keyhan or Et'telaat news paper. You better believe in what I am saying. Big time is coming up baba, it is about time we South Azerbaijanis clear our case with you Persian Aryan Chauvinist Skin heads. I can't wait take the revenge of my South Azerbaijanis nations from you loser Persians. Now you go ahead call to the half of Iran population "Turk Khar". But remember when the right soon comes we will make you Persians eat your own shit. Unfortuntly, some good Persians will burn for sake of ugly Persians. But unfortuntly, that is life. We have lost a lot, we lost our language, culture, Music, leaders, country and finally our identity. All that happened because of you Persians, but soon or later we will make sure you Persians pay very very high price for all that. See you all in promiss land, hope you Persian losers have some balls to face with us (South Azerbijanis Turks).
May God Bless South Azerbaijan
One thing that many Americans (and Germans too as well[1]) find confusing is that Iran is not an Arab country. Mainstream publications have had to offer corrections for decades after mistakenly including Iran in a list of Arab nations or terming it an Arab nation. Here is the ethnic break-down in Iran: Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen 2%, other 1%.
The two big groups to note are the Azeris and the Persians. Persians obviously are the core ethnic group and Farsi is the national language[2]. Azeris though are not an oppressed minority, and I have read that they are over-represented in the power elite. Azeris are a Turkic group and their language is very close to the Turkish of Turkey proper, the main difference is that they are Shia rather than Sunni Muslims. Ethnic affiliations are to some extent fluid between such close groups like the Azeris, Turkomans and Turks, and even with more distant ones like Persians[3].
Persians often take great umbrage at being confused with Arabs. Authors like Robert Kaplan and V.S. Naipul have documented the Persian antipathy toward the Arabs, all the while espousing the Arab religion enthusiastically. It is rather understandable for reasons of history, geography and religion why Iran is bracketed into the Arab world in the minds of many.
But back to specific issues of language: Iran uses a modified Arabic script. If there was one thing that is practically possible in distancing and differentiating Iranians from Arabs, is the option of replacing Arabic script with a Roman alphabet. Tajikstan, which uses a form of Persian (Dari) as its national language has done just that[4], and Turkey's conversion to the Roman alphabet surely helped to distance their identity in the mind of Westerners from that of their former Arab subjects.
So my prediction, within two generations Iran will switch to a Roman alphabet. In fact, I would not be surprised if many non-Arab Muslim peoples switched to a Roman alphabet. Additionally the various peoples of the Indian subcontinent also might switch at some time in the future, something not difficult for certain groups who have low levels of literacy in any case.
fn1. Recently a German acquaintance introduced me to a friend (from Germany) who thought I was "Arabic," since I looked a bit (very vaguely I assume) like an Iranian friend of theirs.
fn2. Between the fall of the Sassanids around 650 and the rise of the Pahlavis in the 1920s native stock Persian speakers were never very militarily prominent. Persia was mostly ruled by Arabs, Mongols and Turkic groups.
fn3. Basically, I'm trying to say that post-French Revolution Western concepts of "nation" and "ethnic group" have less salience in this area of the world, as we learned in Afghanistan. And before Zack Latif chimes in-yes, the big chasm is between agriculturalist and nomad.
fn4. More accurately, they went from Arabic to Cyrillic to Roman.
GNXP.COM
HI,(Selamlar) this is the first message of mine at this forum. I am an Azerabiajni Turk from the country now called Persia. and Azerbaijani turks were always a subject here. I have seen many Persians and even Turkmen friends callin Azerbaijanies as persians. To solev this question fro myself I donated my genes to the Genographic project condacted by National geography and the results was that I have M17(Ra1) marker. Proving that my family are related to Turkmens,Kirkizs, and Kazaks from central Asia, the butiful grasslands of Scytians, Huns and Turks. This was a clear answer fro me about the Azerbaijani Turks and their blood line. This marker is almost zero between Persians and olny could be founf between east persians in khorasan, who could be assimilated turks to persian culture. I really fill happy to have a prove at least for myself that there are still Turkish blood in Azerbaijan the land of Oguz tribes. I love all cultures and respect them even I am fluent in Persian.But francly I hate that somebody else calls me something which I am not really.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7059&PN=1&TPN=1
Oslonor: Azeri Turks are not related to Aryan migration. All sources confirm that.
An Old Norwegian Saga relating Scandinavians with Persians.
According to Ynglinga Saga, many hundreds of years after the Aesir had settled among the Vanir, Norse nobles continued to remember their venerable eastern ancestry, which was traceable to Godheim and the Great Swithiod. These lands were legendary and still held an aura of mystique and wonderment for later Norsemen, many centuries after they had migrated westward.
"To Saeming Earl Hakon the Great reckoned back his pedigree. This Swithiod they called Mannheim (literally: The home of men), but the Great Swithiod (Greater Scythia) they called Godheim; and of Godheim great wonders and novelties were related".255
It would appear that the descendants of Odin and the initial wave of immigrants lost contact with Godheim (literally “the home of the gods”) in the ancestral motherland, and after having lived a long time in Europe set out in search of it, having previously sworn that they would succeed in this mission. It was in Turkland (ie; Central Asia) that the Norseman Swegde chanced upon the very people he had been searching for. Having rediscovered Godheim and the Great Svithiod he apparently established lasting contact with the inhabitants of the region.
"Swegde took the kingdom after his father, and he made a solemn vow to seek Godheim and Odin. He went with twelve men through the world, and came to Turkland, and the Great Svithiod, where he found many of his connections".256
Earl Hakon the Great was not the only high-born one to look eastward. In the Old Norse tale Gylfaginning,257 the Swedish king Gylfi is said to have undertaken an arduous journey to Asgard (an Icelandic folk remembrance of the Persian regional governmental centre of Asagarta {sandwiched between Parthia and Medea}), where he met in consultation with the wizard-gods, who, the Christian Snorri tells us, “deceived him” with their tales of the world’s origins and its coming end. There the king learned many other things that proved to be the basis for Norse pagan beliefs. As you have already seen, the epic of Ragnarok was probably one such teaching. Here Snorri’s pen appears to have faithfully recorded Gylfi’s unforgettable adventure, preserving for us profound Norse remembrances of the divine wizards of Asia Minor.
Additional relevant details are found noted in a 13th Century Icelandic tract, which allow us to specifically identify the wizards as Magi, for it was said that - “Magon reigned over parts of the Great Svithiod, but Madia over Kylfingaland, which we call Gardariki (Rus’)”.258 This account intimates that the Svithiod was ruled by a Magus, with the best part of the Medes, the original tribe of the Magi, serving as temporal lords over ancient Russia, having left Iran at some point in ages past.
are Americans white ???????
or are there White Americans ??????
Similarly there are White Iranians !!!!!!
Too tough for you to understand ?????
Iran is not a single-ethnic group nation, it consists of different ethnicities of whom a significant minority is still white.
Both Afgan and Iran were attacked subsequently by the Turks, Arabs, Huns, Scythians/Saka (an indo-european tribe), and other medieval tribes but since a tribal system was/is maintained intermixture was generally to the minimum and people generally confined themselves to their tribes & regions. Thus till today you can see ethnicities in those lands changing with the regions.
"There are more and more ridiculous claims by African/Negroes about the racial origin of people throughout the world. THe level of ignorance among black Americans simply amazes me to go and suggest all this nonsense about Indians, Persians etc...being African!!!!!"It's not so much ignorance; it's more a case of "I don't like who I am, so I'm just going to spread myself around to other people so I can feel better." A very common phenomenon among US minorities, I might add.
"First and foremost, African Negroes played ABSOLUTELY NO PART in the history and culture of Asia (or Egypt for that matter)."
Egypt may have been a "joint effort", if you will, as there are skeletal remains from ancient Egypt with clearly Negroid features, and upper Egypt is known to have been significantly Negroid. What role the Negroes played in Egypt is still up in the air; however, the evidence suggests that Egypt was predominantly a Mediterranean (as in race) civilization. My own opinion is that a people akin to the Minoans had something to do with it, and that these Minoans were of the Atlanto-Mediterranean racial type that is common today in Crete, the Aegean, the Balkans, and northern Italy.
"By around 10 000 years ago, the racial mixture of the copper-skinned so-called Irano-Afghan race (a Mediterranean race somewhat related to southern Italians, Greeks, dark Iberians etc...)...."
There isn't much relation between Irano Afghans and these other groups. I-A's are a very old Middle-Eastern stock that is insignificant west of the Caucasus. Further, Greeks are quite different from southern Italians and Spaniards; mainland Greece (racially) is more a part of the Central European sphere; it is predominantly Alpine and Dinaric. On Crete exists the second-tallest people in Europe--a clan called "Sphakiotes"--which might be an ancient Upper-Paleolithic remnant similar to the Ghegs of Albania and Montenegro. Also, in Greece, the dominant Med. strain is the taller, more-robust Atlanto-Mediterranean and not the more-gracile variety one encounters west. Greeks are closest genetically, I believe, to West-Balkan groups, especially Albanians.
"1)the Nordic race, clearly illustrated on glazed brick art work from the palace of Shush in southern Iran depicting blond haired, blue or green eyed Achamenid soldiers as well as ancient descriptions of Sarmatian and Scythians as a blond, tall and ruddy skinned race. Nordics are Mesocephalic, about 6 feet tall with blond or red hair and blue or blue/grey eyes"
True Nordics are tall, pink skinned, yellow haired, very dolichocephalic, and have steel-blue eyes. I have yet to see an Iranian who fits this description (and I've seen thousands of Iranians in my lifetime). Also, hair/eye blondism occurs in Mediterranean and Alpine groups as well, so it alone can't be used to determine "Nordic" ancestry.
"2) Armenoid or Pamir/Ferghanna type constituting a native physical type originally from the Caucasus that migrated to Central Asia some 4500-5000 years ago and became mixed with the Nordic Aryans around 4000 years ago during their descent into Central Asia and Iran. These people have fair skin but black hair and brown or hazel eyes, stand about 5'9" in height and have bracycephalic skulls, similar to the Alpine and Dinaric types of Central and Balkanic Europe."
Armenoids are simply a stable blend of Irano-Afghans and Alpines. They are an example of the principle of Dinaricization: wherever a broad-headed group mingles with a dolichocephalic group (in the correct proportions) the offspring will be born with a very broad head, occipital flattening, a convex nose, and generally an upside-down-triangle-shaped head. On that note, the Dinarics proper are a blend of Alpine and Atlanto-Mediterranean, and Alpine-Nordic crosses are called "Norics." Also, an Armenoid somewhere in the Middle-East doesn't necessarily have ancestry from the Caucasus; he could just as easily have formed locally, given what I said above.
I would like to add that nobody knows, as of yet, what the race of the Indo-Europeans was, or even if there were true Indo-Euopean invasions for that matter. It is likely that there weren't invasions at all, at least as most people like to think of them, and that most ethnicities are the result of certain races radiating from their centers of origin and overlapping with each other. It is my personal opinion that "Indo-European" languages are nothing more than the result of Alpines radiating out from above the Black Sea and mingling with other groups.
Most romantic invasion/migration theories are simply made up to suite the agendas of their respective theorists. Nazis wanted to make the German people feel they were important; Afrocentrists are trying to raise their low self-esteem that's the result of a history of non-achievement and being subjugated by others; and, with all due respect, Iranians with their "Aryan heritage" are just trying to become white (even turning against their own darker countrymen to do so) in a world that will probably never view them as such--sad.
"To conclude, one cannot simply classify the entire Iranian nation in one single race. I am white, my mother has red hair and my brother in law is Dravidian looking. My paternal grandfather had copper complexion with brown eyes while my maternal grandfather had light brown hair and green eyes (and looked German!). There are Iranians who can't be told apart from northern Europeans like Germans and British while others can easily pass as Italian/Spanish, Oriental or even Indian (East Indian).Genes however never disapear (Havey-Weinberg law) and regardless, always resurface in teh living population after one or more generations."
Don't kidd yourself; anyone with good intelligence can spot a typical Iranian--even a "blonde" one--in a crowd. I know I can. I've caught Persians (and Arabs too) trying to pass themselves off as southern Europeans before. There's this Italian guy at my work who looks so-NOT Iranian (he just has black hair), yet I've seen Persians actually come up and ask him if he was Iranian!@*!!??? You should have seen the looks on peoples' faces! I'm Greek, and I have many times overheard Iranians tell people things like "oh, Iranians are similar to Greeks....", "we're a lot like Greeks....", etc. That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, and I (and probably most Greeks) find that very offensive. Of course, when mistaken for an Arab (which happens a lot) my Iranian friends (sorry guys if you're reading this, but you know it's true) will throw a fit. "I'M FROM IRAN" they scream (as if an American knows the difference anyway), "I'M WHITE!!!!", yada yada yada.
"In a racial sense, Iranians can be Mediterranean, European (White), Australoid or Dravidian, or Mongoloid/Oriental. Skin color ranges from ruddy white to brown and black. Eyes range from blue to green, grey and brown. Height ranges from 5'4 to 6'4. Hair ranges frmo platinum and ash blond to light brown, dark brown, black with reddish hues or black with bluish hues."
You can draw these distinctions, but again, your average American on the street can spot an Iranian of any race from a mile away. You seem a lot like most Iranians I know: you want to be white so bad that you end up a racist (even against your own people), and you delude yourself into thinking you look just like any other European--trust me, you don't, and all the plastic surgery, hair dye, and European clothing I see in the Iranian community here fools nobody (except yourselves). I can honestly say that the most racist people I know are Iranians, and it's very sad to see astonishingly racist behavior from people who are treated like dogs (and definitely considered non-white) in Europe and the US. If you are a racist (as I suspect you are) you should (1) be ashamed of yourself and (2) realize that most won't consider you white in a million years. Iranians are a beautiful, unique blend of ethnicities, and you should be proud of this, rather than play it down and make divisions in order to convince yourselfe that you are white.
Oslonor Comments: There are many Persians who do not fit into Azeri-Iranian stereotype. Just check my blog and compare Azeris with Persians.
Reply: It is a new fashion for African-Americans to call themselves "Multi-Racial". Usually they say that they are partly white. To say they are partly "Iranian" is something very new.
4:04 PM
The Persians in Iran constitute 22% of the population of Iran, at the same time the Azeri Turks are 52% of the population of Iran. Furthermore, the persians in Iran are a mixture of Arabs, and Africans, and claim of that persians are Aryans, is a fabrication of peopole who feel inferior abut their afro-arab heritage.
6:50 PM
What is the problem with iranians about to be white or not? Why do you insist to be a white people even though it is not true, of course there are a few white iranians with blond hair, but this doenst mean that you are really a white people. Dutchman were in Brazil Northeast and you can find people looking like a nordic , but it doens mean that brazilans from that region are white just because there is some fews with blue eyes. I think the prejudice is not in hollywood, but in yourself. Look to you like really you are. hugs...
9:25 PM
[The following is in response to the previous anonymous poster] It amazes me to see the previous poster stating that Iranians want to be labeled as White. They don't! How can you compare what's been stated about the Persians to the White Dutch-Brazilians? Comparisons like this make me cringe! By now you should know that the Persians have lived in Iran for thousands of years -- prior to any Europeans venturing out of their homelands to setup colonies. (Iran, up to the 18th century, was something of a fairyland to the Europeans.) Do you understand what that implies? Let me spell it out for you. Iran's Persian population (currently under 17 million) is indigenous, and has been for thousands of years. We are not talking about isolated groups of White offsprings in some far out land being colonized by the Dutch or any other Europeans for that matter! In other words, Persians are the only minority in Iran that can claim their Indo-European link; none of the other minorities (Assyrians, Azeris, etc.) can do that. Do yourself a favor, and once again take a close look at the photos of Shermine Sharivar (Miss Germany 2005), and Rudi Bakhtiar (CNN anchor). Do they look Arab, or African to you? Look at the Persian men in the photos. Do you see Afro, Arab, or Azeri features in them? Fact of the matter is that they are all White, non-European, Aryan Persians. I think part of the reason for your prejudice is due to the current political climate in the Middle-East, and partly, due to the fact that you (like millions of others) continue to erroneously equate all Iranian to Persians. Thank God reality does not depend on your beliefs, or else entire races would vanish in a blink of an eye. Cheers, and Hugs...(the Persian way!) -- Ed