In Iran, nobody describes themselves as Persian. Persian basically means Iranian proper (Iranian stock, Farsi language) or Great Iranian in the sense that proper Russians used to be described as Great Russians while related peoples like the Belarussians were called White Russians.
There are several groups which the Persians would consider as close (but not identical) brethren. These include the Gilaki, Mazandarani and Kords. Sometimes the Lor and Bakhtiari are also considered as brethren but not as close I don't think (they are often viewed with suspicion as they are tribesmen and historical events). There is a recognition that Baluchis are related to Persians but they are viewed with suspicion because they have probably mixed somewhat with non-Iranian people.
The Arabs and Turkmen are definitely not regarded as brethren of the Persians (but these people are probably still largely Iranian though with significant admixture). The Azaris are more complicated. Some view them as brethren; others do not. IMO they are Persians with slight Oghuz Turk admixture (perhaps on the order of 5-10%, say). We're looking at a classical Turkish elite imposing its dominance on a Persian populace I think in Azarbaijan.
As for the accuracy of the CIA figures, note that they have a vested interest in making the Persians look as weak as possible (they fund opposition groups like SANAM which seeks Azari independence). So perhaps the figures are too low even. Also, if the claims of the minorities in Iran were taken into account Persians wouldn't even make up 5% of the population.
So you have to take that with a pinch of salt. Also, places like Gilan can maintain highly concentrated populations whereas the mountainous areas are populated less sparsely.
If I were pushed to come up (using the CIA figures) with the proportion of true Iranians, or Aryans if you want to call it that, I would calculate as follows. At the least, being very strict, I would say that the Persians (51%), Gilakis and Mazandaranis (8) and Kords (7%) were Aryan (66%). Perhaps 5% are not pure leaving 61%. A medium estimate, probably followed by most Persians, would include the Lors and Bakhtiari (5%) and this would leave (taking out the unpure) the Aryan population at about 66%. Now if you were to include the Azari who have no Turkic admixture (22%) this would come to 90%. Some Baluchis may be pure Iranian too but their numbers are so small that it would not change the figure much.
In short, I would say that at least 60% of Iranians are of pure Iranian stock but this may range as high as 90%.
Persian is a synonym for Iranian in the West. Persians are simply Iranians (Persian, Parthians, Scythians and so on) who have discarded their tribal identity and adopted only the Iranian identity. So, strictly, Persians are simply Iranians proper (by that I mean their only identity is Iranian). There are some Iranian groups (Kords, Tajiks, Gilakis, Lors) who are still Iranian but not Iranian proper (or Persian) because they still have a tribal identity. So I don't mean to say that only tribal Persians are true Iranians (I myself am from Tehran and Mashhad so I'm from nowhere near Fars).
If I am being honest, I no longer consider Pashtuns as Iranian and they can go to hell for all I care. This is because they do not think of themselves as Iranian. In fact, they spit on Iran and have forgotten all Iranian customs (Nowrouz etc). Many identify with India more than Iran (although looking at their genetics they have been heavily Indianised like the Parsis). Many Kords hate Iran too sadly but at least they have not forgotten most of their Iranian ways. I have not spoken to Ossetians (or should that be Ironians) but I should imagine they are like the Pashtuns (although I hope they are not). Iran is our country not Afghanistan or Kordestan or Iron. I hope you agree with what I am saying as an Iranian nationalist.
Kords should learn Kordish (I'll leave the dialect up to you
) and Persian together. As I understand it, this is the situation in schools in Kordish areas of Iran today. And Kords should have their own newspapers and TV/radio stations. This does no harm to Iran; in fact, it makes Iran stronger in my opinion.
Iran must have a single official language for practical reasons. This should be Persian because it is the majority language of Iran (soon the Gilaki and Mazandarani will cease to use their own dialects/languages and I think the same will happen with the Lori and Bakhtiari now that most have settled). If Kordish were made an official language then we would also have to make Azari an official language (I would oppose that strongly and I hope you would to). So it would not be feasible to make Kordish an official language. If it were to become an official language (and Azari doesn't) though I would not lose sleep over it (but to be honest I don't see that happening).
Oslonor:
So you are promoting the Azeri Turk "Iranian race" theory so Azeri Turks be included as natives of Persia!!!! And Persians have disappeared??????
I have to disagree. Turkomens are natives of Iran. Azeri Turks are foreigners to Iran. Azeri Turks are regarded as low in intelligence. Turkomans share an ancient culture with the natives of Iran. Only an Azeri Turk like you can lie so much on this forum. Turkomans are honest people. Also I see as usual you as an Azeri Turk claim that you are from Mashhad. That is another lie. Also Pashtoons saved Persia from these Azeri Turks in 17 century by destroying the Saffavids Azeri Turk dynasty.
From my blog: The Rise of Afghan Empire
Also note that we do not consider Iran and social forces running Iran in terms of religion i.e. secular versus religious, or in terms of ethnicity such as Turks and Persians but in terms of culture.
Azeris are turks and their culture is similar to the culture in Caucasus. Azeri Turk culture is not indigenous to Iran. Turkomans and Uzbeks are also Turks but they have a Central Asian culture. Turkomans and Uzbeks are indigenous to Iran.
An Afghan talking to an Azeri Turk Iranian speaking in Dari or Farsi can recognize in a few minutes that the Azeri Turk does not belong to the same central asian cultural group as an Afghan does. This is true even when they are speaking the same language.
That is why these people from Tehran and Isfahan with a Azeri turkish culture from Caucasus have no relation with the history of Persian Empire and culture. They are as foreign to the Persian Cultural and historical heritage as some chechens living in Caucasus.
http://afghanempire.blogspot.com/
There are several groups which the Persians would consider as close (but not identical) brethren. These include the Gilaki, Mazandarani and Kords. Sometimes the Lor and Bakhtiari are also considered as brethren but not as close I don't think (they are often viewed with suspicion as they are tribesmen and historical events). There is a recognition that Baluchis are related to Persians but they are viewed with suspicion because they have probably mixed somewhat with non-Iranian people.
The Arabs and Turkmen are definitely not regarded as brethren of the Persians (but these people are probably still largely Iranian though with significant admixture). The Azaris are more complicated. Some view them as brethren; others do not. IMO they are Persians with slight Oghuz Turk admixture (perhaps on the order of 5-10%, say). We're looking at a classical Turkish elite imposing its dominance on a Persian populace I think in Azarbaijan.
As for the accuracy of the CIA figures, note that they have a vested interest in making the Persians look as weak as possible (they fund opposition groups like SANAM which seeks Azari independence). So perhaps the figures are too low even. Also, if the claims of the minorities in Iran were taken into account Persians wouldn't even make up 5% of the population.
So you have to take that with a pinch of salt. Also, places like Gilan can maintain highly concentrated populations whereas the mountainous areas are populated less sparsely.If I were pushed to come up (using the CIA figures) with the proportion of true Iranians, or Aryans if you want to call it that, I would calculate as follows. At the least, being very strict, I would say that the Persians (51%), Gilakis and Mazandaranis (8) and Kords (7%) were Aryan (66%). Perhaps 5% are not pure leaving 61%. A medium estimate, probably followed by most Persians, would include the Lors and Bakhtiari (5%) and this would leave (taking out the unpure) the Aryan population at about 66%. Now if you were to include the Azari who have no Turkic admixture (22%) this would come to 90%. Some Baluchis may be pure Iranian too but their numbers are so small that it would not change the figure much.
In short, I would say that at least 60% of Iranians are of pure Iranian stock but this may range as high as 90%.
Persian is a synonym for Iranian in the West. Persians are simply Iranians (Persian, Parthians, Scythians and so on) who have discarded their tribal identity and adopted only the Iranian identity. So, strictly, Persians are simply Iranians proper (by that I mean their only identity is Iranian). There are some Iranian groups (Kords, Tajiks, Gilakis, Lors) who are still Iranian but not Iranian proper (or Persian) because they still have a tribal identity. So I don't mean to say that only tribal Persians are true Iranians (I myself am from Tehran and Mashhad so I'm from nowhere near Fars).
If I am being honest, I no longer consider Pashtuns as Iranian and they can go to hell for all I care. This is because they do not think of themselves as Iranian. In fact, they spit on Iran and have forgotten all Iranian customs (Nowrouz etc). Many identify with India more than Iran (although looking at their genetics they have been heavily Indianised like the Parsis). Many Kords hate Iran too sadly but at least they have not forgotten most of their Iranian ways. I have not spoken to Ossetians (or should that be Ironians) but I should imagine they are like the Pashtuns (although I hope they are not). Iran is our country not Afghanistan or Kordestan or Iron. I hope you agree with what I am saying as an Iranian nationalist.
Kords should learn Kordish (I'll leave the dialect up to you
) and Persian together. As I understand it, this is the situation in schools in Kordish areas of Iran today. And Kords should have their own newspapers and TV/radio stations. This does no harm to Iran; in fact, it makes Iran stronger in my opinion.Iran must have a single official language for practical reasons. This should be Persian because it is the majority language of Iran (soon the Gilaki and Mazandarani will cease to use their own dialects/languages and I think the same will happen with the Lori and Bakhtiari now that most have settled). If Kordish were made an official language then we would also have to make Azari an official language (I would oppose that strongly and I hope you would to). So it would not be feasible to make Kordish an official language. If it were to become an official language (and Azari doesn't) though I would not lose sleep over it (but to be honest I don't see that happening).
Oslonor:
So you are promoting the Azeri Turk "Iranian race" theory so Azeri Turks be included as natives of Persia!!!! And Persians have disappeared??????
I have to disagree. Turkomens are natives of Iran. Azeri Turks are foreigners to Iran. Azeri Turks are regarded as low in intelligence. Turkomans share an ancient culture with the natives of Iran. Only an Azeri Turk like you can lie so much on this forum. Turkomans are honest people. Also I see as usual you as an Azeri Turk claim that you are from Mashhad. That is another lie. Also Pashtoons saved Persia from these Azeri Turks in 17 century by destroying the Saffavids Azeri Turk dynasty.
From my blog: The Rise of Afghan Empire
Also note that we do not consider Iran and social forces running Iran in terms of religion i.e. secular versus religious, or in terms of ethnicity such as Turks and Persians but in terms of culture.
Azeris are turks and their culture is similar to the culture in Caucasus. Azeri Turk culture is not indigenous to Iran. Turkomans and Uzbeks are also Turks but they have a Central Asian culture. Turkomans and Uzbeks are indigenous to Iran.
An Afghan talking to an Azeri Turk Iranian speaking in Dari or Farsi can recognize in a few minutes that the Azeri Turk does not belong to the same central asian cultural group as an Afghan does. This is true even when they are speaking the same language.
That is why these people from Tehran and Isfahan with a Azeri turkish culture from Caucasus have no relation with the history of Persian Empire and culture. They are as foreign to the Persian Cultural and historical heritage as some chechens living in Caucasus.
http://afghanempire.blogspot.com/
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